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I saw a lot of reviews mention that Wallace was very underused, and I agree that he wasn’t in it that much, but it made sense to me? It’s not like high school when he and Veronica can work cases together, he’s married and with a responsible job now, so it would just feel forced if he had a big part to play in the main case. It makes sense that he was only around for friendship scenes with Logan and Veronica, and there are only so many of those scenes you can fit in 8 episodes when you have a case to solve.
That was apparently also the reason that Tina didn’t want to return, because they didn’t have any interesting storylines for Mac outside of helping Veronica with computer hacking. I totally respect why just being Veronica’s sidekick wouldn’t interest her as an actress, but I also get that they only had a limited time to tell their story with 8 episodes, so there just wasn’t time to give everyone meaty character development and their own storylines outside of the main arc of the case. Saying that, Mac was the character that I missed the most though, especially after the movie had established that she would be working at Mars Investigations with Veronica. I must have missed the explanation for why she wasn’t there, I was expecting it to be dealt with a bit more than it was?
I did love the intro of Nicole, and it made sense to see Veronica hanging out with her more as she and Wallace were on such different paths in life, I loved all the scenes of them dancing together and just acting crazy lol. I thought they had good chemistry too, I was almost expecting them to kiss at one point early on XD It was really a shame how that new friendship ended for Veronica, I hope they have some scenes together in the possible fifth season to work things out! (Also kind of sad how Keith’s new friendship with Clyde ended, J. K. Simmons was fabulous as always). Both of those characters give me hope with whatever new characters Rob Thomas may be planning to introduce in the future, as he did do a great job with those two, but we’ll see I suppose!
I wasn’t as keen as Matty as the new teenage Veronica though, I thought that she was a bit overused towards the end quite honestly. The actress was fine, but she didn’t really have the charisma and snappy delivery that Veronica had at her age, and that kind of stands out when you want to push a character as a badass younger version of your protagonist. The actress wasn’t bad or anything by any means, but I didn’t feel like she was as awesome as the writers apparently did either, and also Matty’s reaction to Dick’s beheading just felt off to me idk. Even 17 year old Veronica would have been more freaked out than Matty apparently was lol, I was almost wondering for a moment if she was the secret twist behind the later bombings, just because she came across as almost sociopathic in that moment of basically seeming completely underwhelmed at seeing a man’s head cut off...
Oh and I was very sad to hear about Weevil’s family leaving, he was so cute and proud of them in the movie :( I don’t fully understand why he even went back to crime, surely if the settlement was that good then he had enough to set himself up in a legit business? I was also sad to see how much his relationship with Veronica has deteriorated, I did like the last moment between them, but still I hope that Weevil does make an appearance in any future seasons so that they can end things on a better note
And I actually thought that Dick was underused more than Wallace was, it was puzzling to me that he didn’t have more scenes with his Dad, and that we didn’t get his reaction to his father being killed? It felt like he was a character that had earned more of a role in this particular story considering that his father was one of the main villains. But then I felt the same way with season 3 after Cassidy’s death when the show barely touched on it, so I suppose that the show has always used him more for comic relief and never really allowed him to be more than that. Also I do remember Rob Thomas saying in an interview that they wanted to use Dick for more episodes, but Ryan wasn’t available, so I suspect they had to use him in the first three episodes only because scheduling conflicts prevented him showing up at the end of the season?
All of the cameos were fun in their own way, although Parker’s probably felt the most pointlessly random to me, but it was still a nice touch to see so many old favourites again. I had been spoiled on most of the actors returning though unfortunately, the only big surprises were seeing Jake Kane in the finale, as well as Clarence Wiedman’s brief appearance, those were both nice surprises
Finally the cussing was mildly funny in the first episode, but that whole in-joke went on for way too long imo. I don’t know why they needed to include it so much for anyway, yeah sure let Veronica swear occasionally when the moment calls for it, but she was never swearing every other sentence before, it felt a bit out of character. It also makes me wonder what kind of show Hulu were expecting if they had requested that season 4 have no swearing, I wonder just how clear they were in the beginning on what Rob was planning on doing with this version of the show?
And I feel like I almost need a whole separate entry for how much there is to say about the backlash to the big twist!
Personally I wasn’t all that devastated by it I’ll be honest, although I do agree with viewers who are saying that it felt a bit abrupt, it was weird to not even include a shot of the funeral to really tug on our heartstrings. I kept thinking that it was intentionally ambiguous, but Rob Thomas has said since that Logan is definitely meant to be dead, so I guess not? Part of me is still wondering if it’s a massive twist that they’re trying to keep under wraps, but that is looking less and less likely with the interviews that have been released since
I do think that it was very ill-advised of Rob Thomas to go there and not understand just how great the backlash would be, I especially worry about what it means for the show going forward, but I must admit that I’m more frustrated at the moment that the twist seems to be all that most people want to talk about. Some fans are getting seriously obnoxious about it too on twitter. There was a lot of interesting stuff in season 4 that it would be cool to get into, but it feels like all of the focus is just on how it ended, in retrospect it’s a shame that the episodes weren’t released weekly so that there could be more time to discuss them and digest it all. It didn’t help that some fans decided to watch the last ten minutes first, and then proceeded to spoil it for a lot of other fans, including myself :(
And finally I will say that I’m not madly keen on the interviews that I’m reading with Rob. I can live with them killing Logan, but having a season set entirely away from the supporting cast I’m not so sure about... Neptune was always such a big part of the show and a completely solo Veronica will be quite an adjustment. I’m willing to see where they take it though as I did mostly like the new additions this year, but it will be a bummer if season 5 doesn’t feature any of the current cast outside of Veronica
That was apparently also the reason that Tina didn’t want to return, because they didn’t have any interesting storylines for Mac outside of helping Veronica with computer hacking. I totally respect why just being Veronica’s sidekick wouldn’t interest her as an actress, but I also get that they only had a limited time to tell their story with 8 episodes, so there just wasn’t time to give everyone meaty character development and their own storylines outside of the main arc of the case. Saying that, Mac was the character that I missed the most though, especially after the movie had established that she would be working at Mars Investigations with Veronica. I must have missed the explanation for why she wasn’t there, I was expecting it to be dealt with a bit more than it was?
I did love the intro of Nicole, and it made sense to see Veronica hanging out with her more as she and Wallace were on such different paths in life, I loved all the scenes of them dancing together and just acting crazy lol. I thought they had good chemistry too, I was almost expecting them to kiss at one point early on XD It was really a shame how that new friendship ended for Veronica, I hope they have some scenes together in the possible fifth season to work things out! (Also kind of sad how Keith’s new friendship with Clyde ended, J. K. Simmons was fabulous as always). Both of those characters give me hope with whatever new characters Rob Thomas may be planning to introduce in the future, as he did do a great job with those two, but we’ll see I suppose!
I wasn’t as keen as Matty as the new teenage Veronica though, I thought that she was a bit overused towards the end quite honestly. The actress was fine, but she didn’t really have the charisma and snappy delivery that Veronica had at her age, and that kind of stands out when you want to push a character as a badass younger version of your protagonist. The actress wasn’t bad or anything by any means, but I didn’t feel like she was as awesome as the writers apparently did either, and also Matty’s reaction to Dick’s beheading just felt off to me idk. Even 17 year old Veronica would have been more freaked out than Matty apparently was lol, I was almost wondering for a moment if she was the secret twist behind the later bombings, just because she came across as almost sociopathic in that moment of basically seeming completely underwhelmed at seeing a man’s head cut off...
Oh and I was very sad to hear about Weevil’s family leaving, he was so cute and proud of them in the movie :( I don’t fully understand why he even went back to crime, surely if the settlement was that good then he had enough to set himself up in a legit business? I was also sad to see how much his relationship with Veronica has deteriorated, I did like the last moment between them, but still I hope that Weevil does make an appearance in any future seasons so that they can end things on a better note
And I actually thought that Dick was underused more than Wallace was, it was puzzling to me that he didn’t have more scenes with his Dad, and that we didn’t get his reaction to his father being killed? It felt like he was a character that had earned more of a role in this particular story considering that his father was one of the main villains. But then I felt the same way with season 3 after Cassidy’s death when the show barely touched on it, so I suppose that the show has always used him more for comic relief and never really allowed him to be more than that. Also I do remember Rob Thomas saying in an interview that they wanted to use Dick for more episodes, but Ryan wasn’t available, so I suspect they had to use him in the first three episodes only because scheduling conflicts prevented him showing up at the end of the season?
All of the cameos were fun in their own way, although Parker’s probably felt the most pointlessly random to me, but it was still a nice touch to see so many old favourites again. I had been spoiled on most of the actors returning though unfortunately, the only big surprises were seeing Jake Kane in the finale, as well as Clarence Wiedman’s brief appearance, those were both nice surprises
Finally the cussing was mildly funny in the first episode, but that whole in-joke went on for way too long imo. I don’t know why they needed to include it so much for anyway, yeah sure let Veronica swear occasionally when the moment calls for it, but she was never swearing every other sentence before, it felt a bit out of character. It also makes me wonder what kind of show Hulu were expecting if they had requested that season 4 have no swearing, I wonder just how clear they were in the beginning on what Rob was planning on doing with this version of the show?
And I feel like I almost need a whole separate entry for how much there is to say about the backlash to the big twist!
Personally I wasn’t all that devastated by it I’ll be honest, although I do agree with viewers who are saying that it felt a bit abrupt, it was weird to not even include a shot of the funeral to really tug on our heartstrings. I kept thinking that it was intentionally ambiguous, but Rob Thomas has said since that Logan is definitely meant to be dead, so I guess not? Part of me is still wondering if it’s a massive twist that they’re trying to keep under wraps, but that is looking less and less likely with the interviews that have been released since
I do think that it was very ill-advised of Rob Thomas to go there and not understand just how great the backlash would be, I especially worry about what it means for the show going forward, but I must admit that I’m more frustrated at the moment that the twist seems to be all that most people want to talk about. Some fans are getting seriously obnoxious about it too on twitter. There was a lot of interesting stuff in season 4 that it would be cool to get into, but it feels like all of the focus is just on how it ended, in retrospect it’s a shame that the episodes weren’t released weekly so that there could be more time to discuss them and digest it all. It didn’t help that some fans decided to watch the last ten minutes first, and then proceeded to spoil it for a lot of other fans, including myself :(
And finally I will say that I’m not madly keen on the interviews that I’m reading with Rob. I can live with them killing Logan, but having a season set entirely away from the supporting cast I’m not so sure about... Neptune was always such a big part of the show and a completely solo Veronica will be quite an adjustment. I’m willing to see where they take it though as I did mostly like the new additions this year, but it will be a bummer if season 5 doesn’t feature any of the current cast outside of Veronica
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(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-24 12:06 am (UTC)First of all, I hate writers who perpetuate this idea that a happy couple equals a boring couple. I love that more shows lately (more comedies I think) are saying screw that and aren't pushing the will they/won't they crap to the end and are getting couples together and are writing them like grown-ups (with issues and drama) without feeling like they need to be broken up to have a good story. It also seems to basically be a male version of fridging where he completely discounted one character's value because he decided to kill the other character was the only way to write an interesting story for the other one. Reading about this season, it seems like there was an organic way to just break them up without resorting to this.
It makes me very nervous since his other show I do watch iZombie is ending soon and makes me worried what crap he's going to pull there and it, honestly, makes me wary of investing in a show he writes if he has the mindset that a character can't grow and evolve and has to stay an "underdog" and miserable to be interesting. It just seems like writers nowadays feel like the only way to do any interesting drama is to go for shock value and to kill characters willy-nilly and it does get seriously aggravating.
I do think he realized what the backlash would be which is why he kept saying he decided to take a gamble and isn't sure if it was a good bet or not. And, also why he's hiding away and not dealing with the backlash on SM.
Stacey
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-24 12:49 am (UTC)And it’s the interviews that bother me me more than anything else as well, I was very happy with the fourth season, but then reading about where they plan to take VM in future seasons left me a bit iffier. It does sound like Rob really doesn’t get what fans love about VM. He’s basically saying that it was always part soap opera and part noir, and now he wants to go full on noir, but having a season be fully focused on just the mystery would be missing a part of the show that I actually do really value and enjoy. And it’s puzzling too when season 4 was actually full of nostalgic touches, and he really seemed to get what the fans were looking to see. Maybe he doesn’t need to feature quite so many former characters in the next season of the show, but I don’t want to be cut off from all of them either
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-24 12:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-24 01:26 pm (UTC)I ended up rushing through season 4 because I was so worried about more getting spoiled for me, even though it would have been nice to take my time with it a little more, so in retrospect I wish that it hasn’t been released in binge format, especially with the people just skipping ahead to the last ten minutes and ignoring the rest of the season. I did read rumours that they actually released it early because people were starting to guess what the big twist was from context clues in the early reviewers, so they decided to realise it a week early, but I’m not sure if that’s true or not?
And on one hand I get it, of course I do, why wouldn’t most of the viewers be feeling devastated and let down right now. But on the other hand it is kind of exhausting at the moment when it’s a tv revival that you’ve been really looking forward too, and almost all of the discussion is just the same backlash towards the last ten minutes, it seems like the exact same post pops up on the VM forum on Reddit every five minutes! And then you get people on twitter campaigning and petitioning against a season 5 for those who do want more of the show, so yeah feelings are definitely running high at the moment, and it feels like the rest of season 4 has gotten lost in all the backlash to how it ends
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-26 02:15 am (UTC)- Veronica & Logan become the huge pairing in S1, because the network pushed it? Rob Thomas preferred Duncan?
- KBell didn't become friends with Dohring the way she did with Ryan Hansen, never seemed especially comfortable with him?
- The LoVe shippers provided the majority of funding for the movie, making RT indebted to them and resentful at once
- Now those shippers feel like faith has been broken and are unlikely to watch subsequent seasons, a Pyrrhic victory for Thomas.
*I disliked Logan's character, although JD is a good actor. But I think a break-up was the way to go. More realistic.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-26 01:31 pm (UTC)I sense that he can be quite an intense method actor, I read one interview where he was talking about how he felt that he was really in love with Kristen for the three years that the show was on, whereas Kristen always strikes me as someone who jokes around between takes and doesn’t get as heavily invested. There are some fun conspiracy theories going round now though about her being jealous of Logan’s popularity, and driving Jason out because of it! *g* And yes, judging by iZombie and Liv/Major as well, I would say that characters like Duncan and Piz are the characters that Rob Thomas is more drawn too as the love interest, Logan/Veronica always felt like they were driven more by fan demand. Honestly I’ve never seen his writing of romances as his strong suit anyway, he’s one of these writers who breaks the couple up all the time because keeping them apart is the only way he knows how to write them
And my feelings differ slightly from the rest of the fandom when it comes to the movie, I’ve seen a huge sense of entitlement quite frankly acting with people like the show is all down to the fans bringing it back and Rob should therefore be writing to please us, and I just don’t see it that way. Yes the Kickstarter surely helped with showing the level of interest the fans had when it came to approaching Hulu, but it can’t be said for certain that the miniseries couldn’t still have happened without it imo. Revivals are very big right now anyway (X-Files, Gilmore Girls, Roseanne, Will And Grace etc etc), and Kristen and Rob were gung ho for years about wanting to continue with VM, Kristen was particularly vocal about how she was determined to play Veronica again one day, and so I just wouldn’t attribute season 4 solely to the movie. I think they could have still got a revival off the ground with a streaming service regardless as tv as changed a lot since VM was airing back on UPN, and Kristen is a bigger name now as well, so I could see a streaming service like Hulu or Netflix taking an interest regardless
Even with the movie, when Rob and Kristen first put together the Kickstarter proposal it was a huge gamble, it wasn’t like the fans themselves were the ones to approach them with the idea to get a VM off the ground, they were supporting Rob and Kirsten’s efforts with their show at the end of the day. But of course I would understand feeling betrayed if the movie that fans were paying for had killed off Logan, but the new series to me is a different thing, and yet so many fans act like Rob should be writing for the fans demands from now on simply because they kicked in $50 or whatever for the movie. And for me at least the movie was its own thing, Rob made a concentrated effort there to get in as much fan service as possible because he understand that the fans were paying for that one, but that doesn’t mean that he should be forever indebted to the fans in future versions of the show that he and Kristen got off the ground by themselves imho
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-26 12:03 pm (UTC)I do think that it was very ill-advised of Rob Thomas to go there and not understand just how great the backlash would be, I especially worry about what it means for the show going forward, but I must admit that I’m more frustrated at the moment that the twist seems to be all that most people want to talk about.
Yeah. If they wanted the conversation to be about a successful reboot (and I think it is successful!), they shouldn't have ended it this way, because now all the fandom is talking (raging) about is Logan. The thing is, they could have just written him out by sending him on some kind of long-term Navy assignment and either breaking him and Veronica up or having them be in a long-distance relationship in which we just never see him. I know both of those option would be frustrating and upsetting for the 'shippers too, but at least they leave a door open for fanfic and wishful thinking. Instead, Rob Thomas permanently blew up all of the goodwill the fandom had for him after the movie. I get that he basically wants to reboot the premise of the show, but it feels like there was maybe a less divisive way to go about that.
Anyway, I've always been more into the "snarky female private detective" parts of the show, so I'm interested in seeing what a potential S5 looks like.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-26 12:50 pm (UTC)And yeah I’ve never been that passionate about the relationships in Veronica Mars for some reason, similar to iZombie actually, I just don’t think it’s Rob Thomas’s strong point. So it was interesting to me how LoVe almost took over the fandom and everyone was sooo invested in it, when I always cared more about Veronica’s friendships and her relationship with Keith. I was reading someone yesterday complaining that nearly all of the fandom has given up on the show now, and it’s mostly just a few men on twitter who want a fifth season apparently XD
It will be a shame to leave it on this note, so I do hope that Hulu give a fifth season a chance and see if they can pull the new format off, but a lot of people seem convinced that Hulu won’t be interested. So many people have said that they choose not to watch any of the season after hearing the spoilers, and that presumedly affected the ratings a lot as we’re a small fandom anyway, but of course it’s always hard to know with streaming services when they don’t release the numbers.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-26 09:51 pm (UTC)And yeah I’ve never been that passionate about the relationships in Veronica Mars for some reason, similar to iZombie actually, I just don’t think it’s Rob Thomas’s strong point
Agreed. I care a lot more about Liv, Ravi, and Clive's friendships than I do about Liv/Major. And honestly, I feel like Rob Thomas has been over Logan/Veronica since S2.
I think there will be a fifth season. Hulu has gotten a ton of publicity from this, and the critical reviews have been positive. Now, if the ratings (or whatever metric they use) tank for S5, there may not be anymore, but I bet they're willing to take a chance on one more season. The shippers are loud, but in the end they're just one part of the audience.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-07-26 11:09 pm (UTC)