(no subject)

[frelling_tralk]

So I've been seeing this video several times on my flist and I'm trying to work out my thoughts on it

The video in question


I haven't had all that much exposure to Supernatural cons, so I'm wondering if there's some context that I'm missing, but I actually felt like it was a real overreaction the way that everyone tried to shut that fan down

This post has the person who asked the question explaining what happened This is the full question that she wanted to ask:

I’ve loved seeing Dean’s character become more comfortable with himself this season. As a bisexual, I’ve noticed some possible subtext, as seen in Everybody Hates Hitler, that Dean might be coming to accept himself as something other than straight too? I know you’ve said you know Dean better than anyone, so, in your professional opinion, as the preeminent scholar on Dean Winchester, if you see that as a valid interpretation of what’s going on with the character this season.

She then notes that Now here is what happened when I attempted to ask this question. I got as far as the word “bisexual” before the crowd groaned. I proceeded to hold my hand up in a ‘please just wait a second and let me finish’ way and then got as far as the word subtext before the crowd was full on booing and starting to shout a couple things I couldn’t make out. This is when Clif stepped out from behind the curtain looking very intimidating. He said, “Are you really going to ask this question?”

The video also shows Jensen saying "really that's the first question" and jokingly saying don't ruin it for everyone (which did seem to be aimed at her, but I'll take her word for it that she felt it was addressed more at the crowd booing her), and finally says that he's going to pretend that he didn't hear the question and let's move on. And supposedly shipping questions were then banned from the con? But the thing is that she wasn't asking a shipping question at all that I could see, and there are several scenes in canon that can be read as Dean being bixsexual. I don't see it as completely invalid fanwank to ask the actors or the writers about it when the writers are putting those scenes in there. I certainly don't think that anyone deserves to be booed for simply asking the question, nor was there any need for fans to get that defensive over someone perceived as making the actors uncomfortable.

I'm kind of torn because I do hate when fans constantly harp on Destial or Wincest to the actors and look to them to validate their ship, just yikes. But this felt like the other extreme to me with an oddly hostile response from the crowd before she had even finished speaking. I don't know if it's just because a lot of the audience are used to those questions from other cons and have a kneejerk response to them by now, or if they thought she was oversharing or what? I think I might be missing some context with what supposedly happened at Misha's panel earlier as well. But still there's a big difference between asking an actor to sign a fan manip or drawing of something REALLY inappropiate (if you know what I mean...), and an audience of fans having complete second-hand embarassment at someone merely asking "poor Jensen" if the character he plays could be bisexual.

And is a question like that really so inappropriate for a show that all the time teases the audience with quotes like "Cas, last time someone looked at me like that I got laid" and "get out of my ass". It almost seems like it's fine for the writers to joke around with it in a frat-boy kind of a way, but god forbid the audience take any of hints of bisexuality or homosexuality as anything more than something hysterically funny to play around with

Comments

[ellyfanfic.livejournal.com]

I'm a little puzzled by this myself. I admit I haven't watched SPN for a couple of seasons. I was thinking about getting back into it, and after watching an episode the other night I was moved to go Google Dean/Cas, just to see what the status of their relationship was on the show. I came across this quote, supposedly from Misha Collins:

"You know, we know what it is, what’s going on. We don’t talk about it. The actors don’t, Jensen and I don’t. But we’re all perfectly aware of how the relationship is, the writers are completely aware of how it’s being written. It may be unspoken but that doesn’t mean it’s not there or not true."

If they're going to play around with shippers that way, they can expect people to wonder if Dean is perhaps bi, and if he might eventually become more comfortable with that. It seems like a logical question to me. (And I will add that I get really annoyed with shows that tease m/m ships as a sort of joke, a la "The Big Bang.") But perhaps I'm missing context, as it's not my fandom *shrugs*.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Obviously I wasn't there and I don't know much about it beyond the girls response which I reblogged on Tumblr but I do agree that this seems to have been blown out of proportion.

I also agree that there seems to be a double standard between what the show broadcasts and what we're seemingly now not allowed to talk about.

But, you know, although I do still watch the show I don't really consider myself part of the fandom any more and stuff like this is why.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

I've never watched a single episode of this show. So I don't have a dog in this fight in any way.

It's so hard to comment on one minute of video. Not sure what came before or after. Don't know the fandom. Don't know the general fannish conversation about this show. Have read some RPF and watched vids of this show, but that's it.

I think her question was a fair question. She should have continued asking it. The crowd was rude to her and the con runners and the actors didn't help her out. But if you're going to ask it, ask it.

I think people got very uncomfortable as they do sometimes when it comes to bisexuality and homosexuality. Obviously, there is something in the subtext of the show or fannish conversation that prompted such a response. But whatever, she had a right to ask it whether people are uncomfortable or not. What bothered me most was she was sharing about her sexuality and I think the actors should have respected that and validated that.

It's a tough question. Fair, but hard if you are walking a line on the show and well, don't want to answer it!

Personally, I hate being the first comment or question. If I'm going to ask something difficult, I wait and feel out the crowd and let the people answering get a bit warmed up first. But one doesn't have to do that. That's just my preference.

Not all con runners or actors are particularly graceful. Again, they could have really helped that fan out, but they didn't. It's disappointing. So it's on Tumblr. What are fans of SPN thinking? Thinking the actors were wrong or she was wrong to ask or that it was just a unfortunately incident handled badly?

[geckoholic]

I think the reaction of the other fans bothers me far more than JA's. :/ Because, hey, rich straight white dude not being a forward-thinker about that stuff? SHOCKING.

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I don't really understand con etiquette, so there's a lot of context I'm sure I'm missing. But I just feel like the actors and a handful of individual writers end up getting taken to task for the whole universe of fandom feelings about XYZ. And that's such a massive thing that can be tough for me to understand even with written access to all the context, that I kind of can't blame the individuals involved for setting and enforcing whatever boundaries.

But at the same time, when NO HOMO! is the boundary, whether it's based in someone's individual issue or because there's a critical mass of attendees who make it an overwhelming thing to try to talk about, in context of the way SPN-the-narrative has some weird masculinity issues, is...hinky. I'll commit to hinky.

[electricmonk333.livejournal.com]

Well, apparently this came on the heels of a disastrous Misha panel where, allegedly, the same girl asked a shipping question. I don't know it was the same girl, but Misha has admitted that he feels sexually harassed by some fans. So, when you put together that, along with the ban on questions related to shipping, it's not surprising that fans or the actors might react negatively. Furthermore, why, why when you are aware of this would you kick off the first question of a panel with I am bisexual and follow with subtext of the show when you know the actors are tired of that line of questioning?

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this--I wondered what had happened but my ridiculous embarrassment squick wouldn't let me look.

I wonder that folks seem to confuse the RL actors with the fanfic actors. I've always assumed (and I know it’s kind of stereotyping) with JA's background, that he was nowhere near shouting distance of liberal, with all shades of meaning in that word. I've always assumed both of them were politically conservative seeing what part of the States they're from. Certainly, more conservative than fans would wish.

I guess the fan wanted to ask the question that we've all wondered this season but it's probably not ever going to be a good idea to ask it in front of a bunch of gun-shy fangirls, or of people you don’t know. I've been in the audience when someone asks a question that brings a collective gasp from the crowd. The asker is either clueless or very brave....

[silverusagi]

because I do hate when fans constantly harp on Destial or Wincest to the actors and look to them to validate their ship, just yikes. But this felt like the other extreme to me with an oddly hostile response from the crowd before she had even finished speaking.

I'm sure they get tired of ship questions. Then again, I'm sure they're tired of most questions by now. Lots of questions get repeated over and over and over... But yeah, ship questions that are seeking to somehow 'validate' a ship or a particular view of a character get old fast.

That said, it doesn't seem to be what this question was about. And I do find it horrible the way the crowd itself seemed to turn on the girl. It was a situation that spiraled out of control and was very confusing for everyone. Which of course then led to a bunch of 'JENSEN IS A BASTARD' posts on Tumblr because of all the hearsay going on about him shutting her down, and it doesn't seem to be what happened. If the crowd hadn't reacted the way it had, I doubt there would be any drama at all. In my reading of the situation, they were the catalyst.

It almost seems like it's fine for the writers to joke around with it in a frat-boy kind of a way, but god forbid the audience take any of hints of bisexuality or homosexuality as anything more than something hysterically funny to play around with

Also, this. So much.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

It almost seems like it's fine for the writers to joke around with it in a frat-boy kind of a way, but god forbid the audience take any of hints of bisexuality or homosexuality as anything more than something hysterically funny to play around with

In one.

Also, Supernatural fandom is repulsive, what's new in life.

[apeygirl.livejournal.com]

I read about this on Fandom wank, but I think whoever wrote it got a few signals crossed. Thanks for the slightly more balanced write-up. Another tempest in a teapot for SPN fandom. I confess, I've only caught the odd episode, but I plan to watch the whole thing once the show's over and the fandom's nice and calm. SV was enough of a crazy fandom for me (not that I was never crazy). :)

[apeygirl.livejournal.com]

Also happy belated birthday!