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So I've been seeing this video several times on my flist and I'm trying to work out my thoughts on it
The video in question
I haven't had all that much exposure to Supernatural cons, so I'm wondering if there's some context that I'm missing, but I actually felt like it was a real overreaction the way that everyone tried to shut that fan down
This post has the person who asked the question explaining what happened This is the full question that she wanted to ask:
I’ve loved seeing Dean’s character become more comfortable with himself this season. As a bisexual, I’ve noticed some possible subtext, as seen in Everybody Hates Hitler, that Dean might be coming to accept himself as something other than straight too? I know you’ve said you know Dean better than anyone, so, in your professional opinion, as the preeminent scholar on Dean Winchester, if you see that as a valid interpretation of what’s going on with the character this season.
She then notes that Now here is what happened when I attempted to ask this question. I got as far as the word “bisexual” before the crowd groaned. I proceeded to hold my hand up in a ‘please just wait a second and let me finish’ way and then got as far as the word subtext before the crowd was full on booing and starting to shout a couple things I couldn’t make out. This is when Clif stepped out from behind the curtain looking very intimidating. He said, “Are you really going to ask this question?”
The video also shows Jensen saying "really that's the first question" and jokingly saying don't ruin it for everyone (which did seem to be aimed at her, but I'll take her word for it that she felt it was addressed more at the crowd booing her), and finally says that he's going to pretend that he didn't hear the question and let's move on. And supposedly shipping questions were then banned from the con? But the thing is that she wasn't asking a shipping question at all that I could see, and there are several scenes in canon that can be read as Dean being bixsexual. I don't see it as completely invalid fanwank to ask the actors or the writers about it when the writers are putting those scenes in there. I certainly don't think that anyone deserves to be booed for simply asking the question, nor was there any need for fans to get that defensive over someone perceived as making the actors uncomfortable.
I'm kind of torn because I do hate when fans constantly harp on Destial or Wincest to the actors and look to them to validate their ship, just yikes. But this felt like the other extreme to me with an oddly hostile response from the crowd before she had even finished speaking. I don't know if it's just because a lot of the audience are used to those questions from other cons and have a kneejerk response to them by now, or if they thought she was oversharing or what? I think I might be missing some context with what supposedly happened at Misha's panel earlier as well. But still there's a big difference between asking an actor to sign a fan manip or drawing of something REALLY inappropiate (if you know what I mean...), and an audience of fans having complete second-hand embarassment at someone merely asking "poor Jensen" if the character he plays could be bisexual.
And is a question like that really so inappropriate for a show that all the time teases the audience with quotes like "Cas, last time someone looked at me like that I got laid" and "get out of my ass". It almost seems like it's fine for the writers to joke around with it in a frat-boy kind of a way, but god forbid the audience take any of hints of bisexuality or homosexuality as anything more than something hysterically funny to play around with
The video in question
I haven't had all that much exposure to Supernatural cons, so I'm wondering if there's some context that I'm missing, but I actually felt like it was a real overreaction the way that everyone tried to shut that fan down
This post has the person who asked the question explaining what happened This is the full question that she wanted to ask:
I’ve loved seeing Dean’s character become more comfortable with himself this season. As a bisexual, I’ve noticed some possible subtext, as seen in Everybody Hates Hitler, that Dean might be coming to accept himself as something other than straight too? I know you’ve said you know Dean better than anyone, so, in your professional opinion, as the preeminent scholar on Dean Winchester, if you see that as a valid interpretation of what’s going on with the character this season.
She then notes that Now here is what happened when I attempted to ask this question. I got as far as the word “bisexual” before the crowd groaned. I proceeded to hold my hand up in a ‘please just wait a second and let me finish’ way and then got as far as the word subtext before the crowd was full on booing and starting to shout a couple things I couldn’t make out. This is when Clif stepped out from behind the curtain looking very intimidating. He said, “Are you really going to ask this question?”
The video also shows Jensen saying "really that's the first question" and jokingly saying don't ruin it for everyone (which did seem to be aimed at her, but I'll take her word for it that she felt it was addressed more at the crowd booing her), and finally says that he's going to pretend that he didn't hear the question and let's move on. And supposedly shipping questions were then banned from the con? But the thing is that she wasn't asking a shipping question at all that I could see, and there are several scenes in canon that can be read as Dean being bixsexual. I don't see it as completely invalid fanwank to ask the actors or the writers about it when the writers are putting those scenes in there. I certainly don't think that anyone deserves to be booed for simply asking the question, nor was there any need for fans to get that defensive over someone perceived as making the actors uncomfortable.
I'm kind of torn because I do hate when fans constantly harp on Destial or Wincest to the actors and look to them to validate their ship, just yikes. But this felt like the other extreme to me with an oddly hostile response from the crowd before she had even finished speaking. I don't know if it's just because a lot of the audience are used to those questions from other cons and have a kneejerk response to them by now, or if they thought she was oversharing or what? I think I might be missing some context with what supposedly happened at Misha's panel earlier as well. But still there's a big difference between asking an actor to sign a fan manip or drawing of something REALLY inappropiate (if you know what I mean...), and an audience of fans having complete second-hand embarassment at someone merely asking "poor Jensen" if the character he plays could be bisexual.
And is a question like that really so inappropriate for a show that all the time teases the audience with quotes like "Cas, last time someone looked at me like that I got laid" and "get out of my ass". It almost seems like it's fine for the writers to joke around with it in a frat-boy kind of a way, but god forbid the audience take any of hints of bisexuality or homosexuality as anything more than something hysterically funny to play around with
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(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 02:58 pm (UTC)"You know, we know what it is, what’s going on. We don’t talk about it. The actors don’t, Jensen and I don’t. But we’re all perfectly aware of how the relationship is, the writers are completely aware of how it’s being written. It may be unspoken but that doesn’t mean it’s not there or not true."
If they're going to play around with shippers that way, they can expect people to wonder if Dean is perhaps bi, and if he might eventually become more comfortable with that. It seems like a logical question to me. (And I will add that I get really annoyed with shows that tease m/m ships as a sort of joke, a la "The Big Bang.") But perhaps I'm missing context, as it's not my fandom *shrugs*.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:07 pm (UTC)I also agree that there seems to be a double standard between what the show broadcasts and what we're seemingly now not allowed to talk about.
But, you know, although I do still watch the show I don't really consider myself part of the fandom any more and stuff like this is why.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:08 pm (UTC)I haven't watched for a while either. Not for lack of caring, just I'm falling behind on so much tv anyway, and I never ended up starting season 8 because everyone was so negative about the brother moments and how Sam was being portrayed as not looking for his brother. But the second half reviews are much happier, so I'm planning to catch up with season 8 soonish, or over the summer at least. I've still been following fandom and the reviews for it though lol, which is kind of odd I suppose :P
Supposedly there was an episode in season 8 with a guy hitting on Dean which suggested that Dean wouldn't be totally opposed by it. I'm just going on heresy for that of course, but definitely I think the later seasons saw the writers responding a lot more to fandom and giving them more subtext to play around with, i.e in Changing Channels it's hard not to see some subtext in Dean's awkward shuffling respondes around "Dr.Sexy". Yet it seems to be a complete faux pas for fans to treat it as anything more than the writers having a wink wink joke with the audience
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:22 pm (UTC)It's so hard to comment on one minute of video. Not sure what came before or after. Don't know the fandom. Don't know the general fannish conversation about this show. Have read some RPF and watched vids of this show, but that's it.
I think her question was a fair question. She should have continued asking it. The crowd was rude to her and the con runners and the actors didn't help her out. But if you're going to ask it, ask it.
I think people got very uncomfortable as they do sometimes when it comes to bisexuality and homosexuality. Obviously, there is something in the subtext of the show or fannish conversation that prompted such a response. But whatever, she had a right to ask it whether people are uncomfortable or not. What bothered me most was she was sharing about her sexuality and I think the actors should have respected that and validated that.
It's a tough question. Fair, but hard if you are walking a line on the show and well, don't want to answer it!
Personally, I hate being the first comment or question. If I'm going to ask something difficult, I wait and feel out the crowd and let the people answering get a bit warmed up first. But one doesn't have to do that. That's just my preference.
Not all con runners or actors are particularly graceful. Again, they could have really helped that fan out, but they didn't. It's disappointing. So it's on Tumblr. What are fans of SPN thinking? Thinking the actors were wrong or she was wrong to ask or that it was just a unfortunately incident handled badly?
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:25 pm (UTC)And exactly, there was no need for that question to be awkward because there are many tactful answers to give in response, even just quickly laughing it off with "well I haven't been intentionally playing it that way, but there's more a question for the writers." It's not like she got up there and asked something wildly inappropriate like does Jensen play Dean as a top or a bottom!
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:33 pm (UTC)What bothered me most was she was sharing about her sexuality and I think the actors should have respected that and validated that.
I was disappointed that neither actor said anything about "c'mon there's no need to boo her guys", but then it's possible that they just had a kneejerk reaction to great, yet another one of those awkward shipping questions. They have taken part in a LOT of cons and,from what I hear, Jensen always shuts down questions about subtext with one slash ship in particular, but people still keep asking about it and some have no sense of boundries, so that probably played into their response as well
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 03:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 04:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 04:08 pm (UTC)I know that AJ and James Callis got it all the time and they were either graceful or witty about it.
Here is an example in my mind how to answer awkward questions. I love AJ. . :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWxsoAIZM3I
(At minute 4:51.)
Fans ask odd questions sometimes. But it's important how the actors respond. I personally never forgot AJ's response here. Very awkward question and handled well.
And let's face it. They play around with stuff in the subtext of the show. Fans aren't that crazy. (Well, they are but not always. ;-))
I will say that the woman who took the J&J vid checked her own "Ay Dios Mio" response. Unfortunately, we as a culture we aren't at ease with many sexualities yet.
Yet. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 04:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 04:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 05:02 pm (UTC)Exactly, in the past Jensen has supposedly protested about that not being what the show's about, but if the show focuses so much on bromance with characters like Dean/Castiel and Dean/Benny then they should be prepared that it's not ouside of the realm of possibility for fans to get interested and curious about it in this day and age
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 05:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 05:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 05:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 05:16 pm (UTC)Yeah, that's why tumblr fandom confuses me when there's all this serious meta about how Destial is going to happen this season, just look at all these signs for the writers building towards it. I can't even imagine how the SPN writers would handle that ship if hell did freeze over and they started writing canon Destial