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Okay so I shouldn't be copying and pasting posts from TWoP just to mock them. That's very wrong of me. But....Someone just posted (and they were serious) in the Spike thread
To take it a step further, not only do I think that Spike sabotaged Riley and Buffy with all the 'holding her but not having her' crap, he also actively sabotaged Angel and Buffy, with his 'you'll never be friends' speech where he explains to them that they can't have a grown-up relationship, that it's gotta be all blood and screaming and heaving bosums, 'cause he himself is incapable of understanding the concept of an adult relationship that isn't about immediate gratification.
Joyce came and talked to Angel later in that season, and Angel confirmed that he'd already come to the same conclusion, that he couldn't be around Buffy any longer, which suggests that it was *Spike* who first planted that coffin-nail.
And this was well before Spike had any interest in Buffy, other than as another Slayer notch on his belt. He didn't want to *have* her, he justed wanted to wreck what was hers. I have no problem seeing him as the one who wrecked the Scoobs dynamic, since there wasn't a relationship of Buffy's that he didn't manage to screw up to some degree. He even messed up her relationship with Dawn, leading to fights between them when Dawn was sneaking out to be with him, and leading to Buffy's neglect of Dawn when Buffy was sneaking out to be with him...
Ultimately, he wrecks everything he touches.
Wtf? Now I don't have a problem with the sensible discussion of Spike's character not working for people. But Spike ruining every relationship in the show??? B/A and B/R breaking up because of Spike?
It's bizarre to go from that to the SV spoiler thread, on the same board, where people are discussing how the season fell apart when Fine left.
To take it a step further, not only do I think that Spike sabotaged Riley and Buffy with all the 'holding her but not having her' crap, he also actively sabotaged Angel and Buffy, with his 'you'll never be friends' speech where he explains to them that they can't have a grown-up relationship, that it's gotta be all blood and screaming and heaving bosums, 'cause he himself is incapable of understanding the concept of an adult relationship that isn't about immediate gratification.
Joyce came and talked to Angel later in that season, and Angel confirmed that he'd already come to the same conclusion, that he couldn't be around Buffy any longer, which suggests that it was *Spike* who first planted that coffin-nail.
And this was well before Spike had any interest in Buffy, other than as another Slayer notch on his belt. He didn't want to *have* her, he justed wanted to wreck what was hers. I have no problem seeing him as the one who wrecked the Scoobs dynamic, since there wasn't a relationship of Buffy's that he didn't manage to screw up to some degree. He even messed up her relationship with Dawn, leading to fights between them when Dawn was sneaking out to be with him, and leading to Buffy's neglect of Dawn when Buffy was sneaking out to be with him...
Ultimately, he wrecks everything he touches.
Wtf? Now I don't have a problem with the sensible discussion of Spike's character not working for people. But Spike ruining every relationship in the show??? B/A and B/R breaking up because of Spike?
It's bizarre to go from that to the SV spoiler thread, on the same board, where people are discussing how the season fell apart when Fine left.
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 12:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 12:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 12:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 01:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 02:08 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 12:38 pm (UTC)This person's own argument is flawed because if Spike did not want Buffy for anything more than a "Slayer notch" at that point, why would he be interested in sabotaging her relationships?
It makes no sense.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 01:08 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 01:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 01:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 01:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 01:26 pm (UTC)You know every time that i think that I'm a bit too crazy, well... I read stuff like this and then i'm not that hard on myself.
Oops
Date: 2006-01-22 01:29 pm (UTC)What i wanted to add was:
Oh and i must've missed that scene where Spike held the stake to Angel's back as he was forced away from Sunnydale and Buffy. And also that scene where he forced Riley to get bitejobs from various vamps as well as cut off his balls because he felt he wasn't man enough to be with Buffy.
They must have those special dailies.
Re: Oops
Date: 2006-01-22 02:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 01:27 pm (UTC)Spike himself rejects the idea that he has the power to break up healthy relationships in "The Yoko Factor". Of course, we know he hates to brag.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 02:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 02:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 02:19 pm (UTC)Joyce came and talked to Angel later in that season, and Angel confirmed that he'd already come to the same conclusion, that he couldn't be around Buffy any longer
A sensible thing for Angel to decide about a girl at school who kept envisaging weddings, backed up by her mother, but this heinous act is also Spike's doing?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 02:28 pm (UTC)And er some of don't think he ruined Buffy either. I guess TWoP management has decided it's now a fact that he did
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 03:18 pm (UTC)Nice foregone conclusion, there.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 03:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 02:13 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 02:19 pm (UTC)What I really can't stand about certain TWoP posters is the way they seem to think these characters actually exist - they can't seem to get their heads round the concept that Buffy's relationships broke up because of the storyline and if Spike hadn't been a triggering factor, then something else would have been. It's not like Buffy would still be hooked up with Angel if Spike had been staked in S2.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 02:31 pm (UTC)Word! I also don't understand the argument that the scoobies breaking up is down to making Spike look good. Or the old argument that Willow and Anya only killed, so that Spike would be excused more easily.
Umm no. Spike is a fictional character. Blame the writers for the storylines they went with
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 02:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 03:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 04:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 11:25 pm (UTC)Angel is 250 years old for goodness sake, stuck in the body of a horny 23 year old male. The girl was 17 when he popped her cherry. Sooo not mature or able to make good life choices, either of them.
Her relationship with Spike was much more mature and for more adult reasons than people like to admit.
Anyway, I better get going before Spike, the Relationship Sheriff comes and breaks up my marriage.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 03:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 05:40 pm (UTC)He says as much in The Yoko Factor, that he's just giving people a gentle nudge that were destined to have a big falling-out soon anyway
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 05:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 05:37 pm (UTC)And yeah in SV spoiler thread that's the latest discussion, because Fine was seen as the first arc that worked, and the show has apparently lost momentum since
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 06:00 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 11:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 02:16 am (UTC)Behold the power of Spike, kneel before him and worship!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 03:49 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 04:35 am (UTC)And trying to understand the reasoning behind the accusation just makes my head hurt with the stupid.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 04:37 am (UTC)Link . Just made a stupid coding error. :(
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 10:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-22 11:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 01:23 am (UTC)We need more people!!!!!!!11
Yes, I am crazy. Hee.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 01:25 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 01:37 am (UTC)Can you share what you sent with me by email? Or perhaps post it in the thread at TWoP? I wish I could get a number of how many people have sent so far. That might be kinda hard though. Heh.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-23 06:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-24 06:34 am (UTC)Being a comic/movie/TV genre nerd, I don't often say this. but whoever wrote that'un? Get a life!
(OH, and B/A was not the adult ship. It was the 'sweet sixteen' flowery romantic teenage ship. Which is fine if that's what some people are into more, but to call that the 'adult' one? Just funny)