(no subject)

[frelling_tralk]

Okay so I shouldn't be copying and pasting posts from TWoP just to mock them. That's very wrong of me. But....Someone just posted (and they were serious) in the Spike thread

To take it a step further, not only do I think that Spike sabotaged Riley and Buffy with all the 'holding her but not having her' crap, he also actively sabotaged Angel and Buffy, with his 'you'll never be friends' speech where he explains to them that they can't have a grown-up relationship, that it's gotta be all blood and screaming and heaving bosums, 'cause he himself is incapable of understanding the concept of an adult relationship that isn't about immediate gratification.

Joyce came and talked to Angel later in that season, and Angel confirmed that he'd already come to the same conclusion, that he couldn't be around Buffy any longer, which suggests that it was *Spike* who first planted that coffin-nail.

And this was well before Spike had any interest in Buffy, other than as another Slayer notch on his belt. He didn't want to *have* her, he justed wanted to wreck what was hers. I have no problem seeing him as the one who wrecked the Scoobs dynamic, since there wasn't a relationship of Buffy's that he didn't manage to screw up to some degree. He even messed up her relationship with Dawn, leading to fights between them when Dawn was sneaking out to be with him, and leading to Buffy's neglect of Dawn when Buffy was sneaking out to be with him...

Ultimately, he wrecks everything he touches.


Wtf? Now I don't have a problem with the sensible discussion of Spike's character not working for people. But Spike ruining every relationship in the show??? B/A and B/R breaking up because of Spike?


It's bizarre to go from that to the SV spoiler thread, on the same board, where people are discussing how the season fell apart when Fine left.

Comments

[fahrbotdrusilla]

yes, it was SPIKE’S fault Angel left Buffy... he didn't love her he just wanted to ruin her? Whatever.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

It's kind of weird to say a relationship ended just because of a remark Spike throws around. The relationships must have been er pretty flimsy in that case

[fahrbotdrusilla]

or Angel takes Spike's opinion way more seriously than anyone would have thought...

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Lol!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah. The only real response any more is 'whatever.' Millions of words have been written as people have restated their positions over and over again. I think the position that Spike ruined squat is ridiculous, but it's exhausting to even contemplate debating it with someone who sees it entirely differently. I do sort of just roll my eyes and say, "Whatever." (while silently mocking their intelligence. Well... I never said I was totally mature. :)

[opalescence.livejournal.com]

Spike spoke the truth. What happened from there just...happened.

This person's own argument is flawed because if Spike did not want Buffy for anything more than a "Slayer notch" at that point, why would he be interested in sabotaging her relationships?

It makes no sense.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Doesn't make a lot of sense lol

[sarahlynnl.livejournal.com]

Makes you wonder if this person was watching the same show as us.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Apparently, Spike has a strong power over people, where they are unable to think for themselves.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

He is an international arms dealer! I wouldn't put anything past that Spike :P

[sweet-ali.livejournal.com]

Wow, that amused me more than it should've...

You know every time that i think that I'm a bit too crazy, well... I read stuff like this and then i'm not that hard on myself.

Oops

[sweet-ali.livejournal.com]

Damn, hit the return button accidentally...

What i wanted to add was:

Oh and i must've missed that scene where Spike held the stake to Angel's back as he was forced away from Sunnydale and Buffy. And also that scene where he forced Riley to get bitejobs from various vamps as well as cut off his balls because he felt he wasn't man enough to be with Buffy.

They must have those special dailies.

Re: Oops

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think we can blame Spike for every decision people on the show made

[auroramama]

What a, um, colorful interpretation of Spike's behavior. Apparently (1) trying to break up a relationship because you're jealous, and (2) exchanging a few home-truth jabs with a couple of old enemies, is outstandingly evil for a conscienceless killer. If the converse holds, we should be seeing rampant bloodshed on every situation comedy, since they all feature scoundrels who repeatedly commit acts of jealousy and mean-spiritedness.

Spike himself rejects the idea that he has the power to break up healthy relationships in "The Yoko Factor". Of course, we know he hates to brag.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Hee

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Lol

[grapefruitzzz.livejournal.com]

Aw, the Spike hatas are so dedicated. I swear half those posts are feeds by the management. Have you noticed random Spike hate comments popping up in other areas? Bad character? Not as bad as Spike. Most Embarrassing Situation? Spike! Worst Woman in Rock? Spike!

Joyce came and talked to Angel later in that season, and Angel confirmed that he'd already come to the same conclusion, that he couldn't be around Buffy any longer

A sensible thing for Angel to decide about a girl at school who kept envisaging weddings, backed up by her mother, but this heinous act is also Spike's doing?

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

There was a poll at TWoP about did Spike ruin Smallville the way he ruined Buffy. And I had a what the hell reaction to that, because it's not even a question any Smallville person is asking really. Everyone in the SV forum thinks James's character has been a great addition this season *shrug*

And er some of don't think he ruined Buffy either. I guess TWoP management has decided it's now a fact that he did

[grapefruitzzz.livejournal.com]

Oh I forgot that 'Spike' was set to ruin Smallville too. I've only seen two episodes so far, so I can't tell how much his disgraceful, scene-hogging 'good acting' routine has wrecked all the relationships on the show.

Nice foregone conclusion, there.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yeah. By voting yes or no, it's kind of like the, "so when did you stop beating your wife?" question. *eyeroll*

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

TWOP has some sane posters but is run by the crazies. Most boards, it's the other way around.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

And of course it would have been such a good thing for Buffy if Angel and Riley hadn't left.

What I really can't stand about certain TWoP posters is the way they seem to think these characters actually exist - they can't seem to get their heads round the concept that Buffy's relationships broke up because of the storyline and if Spike hadn't been a triggering factor, then something else would have been. It's not like Buffy would still be hooked up with Angel if Spike had been staked in S2.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Buffy's relationships broke up because of the storyline

Word! I also don't understand the argument that the scoobies breaking up is down to making Spike look good. Or the old argument that Willow and Anya only killed, so that Spike would be excused more easily.

Umm no. Spike is a fictional character. Blame the writers for the storylines they went with

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Well, they certainly do enough blaimng the writers over on TWoP, but it's always in terms of characters - like you said "They destroyed the Scoobies to make Spike look good" or whatever. They never seme to think of the characters as serving the needs of the storyline.

[sum1-different.livejournal.com]

lol! The most idiotic thing in that post is the ridiculous claim that B/A was a grown up and adult relationship.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

hee, you and your B/A hate *g*

[cafedemonde.livejournal.com]

Amen! I can't believe that folks think that an 8 month dating spree, one night of sex, 5 months as enemies, one trip to happy-hell, and a few stolen kisses and work-outs sessions equal this burning love of a lifetime.

Angel is 250 years old for goodness sake, stuck in the body of a horny 23 year old male. The girl was 17 when he popped her cherry. Sooo not mature or able to make good life choices, either of them.

Her relationship with Spike was much more mature and for more adult reasons than people like to admit.

Anyway, I better get going before Spike, the Relationship Sheriff comes and breaks up my marriage.

[auroramama]

Spike the Relationship Sheriff might be an interesting meme, at least with respect to fictional relationships. What would Spike say to break up your favorite (or least favorite) pairing?

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yes. Spike was never a good manipulator. It only worked on Buffy in season 6 because she was already depressed. In the balcony scene from DT for instance, Buffy was already seperated from her friends and going to the balcony alone. Spike makes it worse, and whispers in her ear, but he is hardly the catylst for any of it.

He says as much in The Yoko Factor, that he's just giving people a gentle nudge that were destined to have a big falling-out soon anyway

[juxtoppozed.livejournal.com]

The season fell apart when Fine "left"? Do people even try to make sense anymore on that board? I love Fine, he was a great clex-oriented guest star and I want more of him (and more mythology in general), but how exactly has his departure marked a dip in quality. Weird.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

TWoP management aren't liking the role the actor had on Buffy. There was a front page poll on it, and I didn't realise Fine being a good character or not was even in question. I guess they didn't like that people actually gush over James's acting on TWoP in any forum

And yeah in SV spoiler thread that's the latest discussion, because Fine was seen as the first arc that worked, and the show has apparently lost momentum since

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

So, tell me, how did Spike influence the WB, as well? Because B/A ended because they commissioned Angel as a show ;)

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

All down to Spike *g*

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

You're underestimating the power of Spike. Did you guys see the LJ post last week that postulated that Spuffies ruined ALL of television?

Behold the power of Spike, kneel before him and worship!

[auroramama]

Where? And did this post explain just how that happened?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

And trying to understand the reasoning behind the accusation just makes my head hurt with the stupid.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Sorry. Real
Link . Just made a stupid coding error. :(

[withafireinside.livejournal.com]

Heh, if Spike is responsible for breaking up both of those relationships, then my hat is off to him. :)

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

*giggles*

[chlarklove.livejournal.com]

This is kinda OT, but not really (lol), are you writing in? Tell me you're writing in. And if you're not? WHY THE FRELL NOT? LOL You MUST and then post what you sent and then make lots of other people write in too!

We need more people!!!!!!!11

Yes, I am crazy. Hee.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I'm not writing snail mail, but I did e-mail them *g*

[chlarklove.livejournal.com]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! I'm unsure if I'll do snail mail either, but for sure the email. I'm in the process of writing it now.

Can you share what you sent with me by email? Or perhaps post it in the thread at TWoP? I wish I could get a number of how many people have sent so far. That might be kinda hard though. Heh.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Thanks for pointing. Set's rant is hysterical - obviously he'll dedicate the rest of his life to blaming Spike for everything he doesn't like.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_cellar_dweller/]

Coming in way late on this: Wow, it's been a while since I've read such a thoroughly moronic anti-Spike rant. It never ceases to amaze me how people can so fundamentally misunderstand what Joss and the other writers intended, or for that matter, how they can spend more time hating and ripping apart a character they don't like than enjoy the ones they do like.

Being a comic/movie/TV genre nerd, I don't often say this. but whoever wrote that'un? Get a life!

(OH, and B/A was not the adult ship. It was the 'sweet sixteen' flowery romantic teenage ship. Which is fine if that's what some people are into more, but to call that the 'adult' one? Just funny)