![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
'Buffy the Vampire Slayer': Jordie Bellaire, Jeanine Schaeffer Talk Taking the "Ultimate Marvel" Approach to the New Series
JB: I think me and Jeanine when we first started talking about the project, we both talked about how we both love Willow. I think Willow definitely has a lot of charm being this sweet, quiet, bookish girl, but she really came into her own confidence in the later parts of the show. I just think that's the thing that young girls need today, you know, I think we need strong female characters who are confident, not just shrinking violets. Not to say that obviously there aren't women who are like that, still confident, but I just thought it would be a nice flip and a nice change for once to have somebody smart, to have somebody sweet, who is also confident and who can speak her mind and can be honest, and open, and frank
Where do I even start! When was Willow ever ‘just a shrinking violet’? It sounds like they have a very one note idea of what makes a female character a strong role model. What Buffy fan wouldn’t argue that Willow wasn’t pretty badass in her own right, what with her smarts, her computer hacking, and her magic? She doesn’t have to start wearing fishnets to be cool enough for your readers! (Not hyperbole, they are literally putting her character in fishnet stockings and midriff bearing tops like the costume that Willow wears in Halloween as an example of something that she would never ordinarily wear, this is now her everyday wardrobe apparently...) Also she grew in confidence over the course of the series, from the very beginning she was starting to find her voice through her friendship with Buffy, she was able to speak up as early as The Harvest to defend Buffy from Cordelia and her friends after previously slinking away and saying nothing in the pilot when Cordelia was bullying her
And anyway you have an example of female characters who are confident and speak their mind right there with Cordelia and Buffy, why is it so wrong to also have a shy and introverted character? Also I’m not sure I follow their argument on ‘a lot of more sort of bookish or nerdy girls have larger communities now that they can go with the Internet. So I think they've, again not that there aren't girls who are still like, you know, reserved or shy in real life, but I think they have an opportunity to learn more about themselves and build up more confidence because they can more easily find communities of people who are like them.’
I don’t see why that would make Willow more confident and this sexy dresser, isn’t it more likely that a shy and nerdy character like original Willow would just end up spending even more time online in today’s world? Finding friends and communities online that speak to you doesn’t necessarily translate to confidence in the real world after all
JB: Well again, I think like the reversal of Willow, I really liked Dru and her journey throughout the show and the books and stuff, and I really wanted to start her off strong and maybe a little brazen and arrogant. I think that her being a strong character and kind of being frightening, not because she's so unhinged because of what had happened to her in her history. I really wanted her to come off just completely like dominant, completely controlling, really frightening, just like The Master. Again, reversing the idea that there is a male antagonist to Buffy, but actually that her greatest foe could actually be a woman. That's sort of why we went with that for Dru. In my mind, I just want to see her starting off kicking ass, like right away. I don't want us to think, "Oh poor Dru." I want to kind of be like, "I don't want to be in the same room with her at all. She's horrifying."
That...completely erases her entire backstory from the show? And okay maybe this is nitpicking too much, but why slap the name Drusilla on to a Buffy character who has next to nothing in common with her? She was creepy and scary in the original concept of the character too, but there was also the tragedy of her being stalked and driven completely insane by Angelus, and they’ve completely ignoring all of that it sounds like. Fine if they want to genderbend the Master and do something different there, but combining an entirely different character with the Master makes no sense when those two characters could not be more different? Why not just call her The Mistress from the get-go and make her a new character, because this description sounds nothing like the shows Drusilla to me
JB: Well, I think Spike is a sweetheart. He's a big old sweetie pie. I'm a big Team Spike. I really like Spike, and I think that he is a poet. I mean, imagine how a poet's gonna get on with a domineering lady in his life. It's probably not going to be super great for Spike. I don't think he's gonna have a lot of agency. I don't think he's gonna have a lot of his own say or control of things. So that's sort of the relationship I'm interested to explore.
I think maybe originally he kind of pretended that he was a bit more equal than I think he actually felt comfortable. I think we're gonna lean into the fact that he's an outsider, even among outsiders, especially near Dru
The person being described here isn’t Spike at all, it’s William? Obviously they are the same person deep down, but Spike’s whole persona was to do everything he could to go against how he was as a human, that’s how ‘Spike’ was first created by William in the first place. It’s really nothing like the character of vampire Spike if you’re not going to capture that swaggering intro from season 2. And look I love Spike too, but ‘Well, I think Spike is a sweetheart. He's a big old sweetie pie...I think that he is a poet’ Really though?!
The whole description of sweetheart Spike not having a great time with a domineering lady in his life sounds super questionable and woobifying him to me in fact, especially when Drusilla’s character was all about exploring the terrifying concept of a young woman being stalked and victimised by a man until she lost her mind and entire sense of self, and now instead of that she’s going to be the one victimising Spike? In their rush to update some complex female characters and make them more typically ~badass~, it just sounds like they are tripping all over their good intentions
And again this all sounds like it has next to nothing in common with Spike and Dru from the show, so why not introduce brand some new characters if you want to make your villains something completely fresh and different? I absolutely get why they want to change things around and put their own spin on things, but at a certain point why even keep the same names when you are writing characters as the exact opposite of their season 2 selves?
And my final nitpick is that I read on ONTD that the Prophecy has been changed? It’s no longer "Into every generation a slayer is born: one girl in all the world, a chosen one. She alone will wield the strength and skill to fight the vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number. She is the Slayer."
It’s now
-"Into every generation a slayer is born; A Chosen One. They alone will wield the strength and skill to fight vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number. They are the Slayer."
That’s one of the most bizarre changes to me in fact, it’s meant to be more inclusive to use neutral pronouns I guess, but the whole concept of Buffy from the beginning was celebrating female power?
To be a little more positive though, I do like that the art looks miles better than the artist they used for the season 8 comics (the article has lots of examples of the inside art). I just wish they didn’t feel the need to completely change preexisting characters, while still giving them the same name. It’s interesting that I haven’t heard them discuss Buffy much actually, so I assume that means that she hasn’t been changed as much as the supporting cast?
JB: I think me and Jeanine when we first started talking about the project, we both talked about how we both love Willow. I think Willow definitely has a lot of charm being this sweet, quiet, bookish girl, but she really came into her own confidence in the later parts of the show. I just think that's the thing that young girls need today, you know, I think we need strong female characters who are confident, not just shrinking violets. Not to say that obviously there aren't women who are like that, still confident, but I just thought it would be a nice flip and a nice change for once to have somebody smart, to have somebody sweet, who is also confident and who can speak her mind and can be honest, and open, and frank
Where do I even start! When was Willow ever ‘just a shrinking violet’? It sounds like they have a very one note idea of what makes a female character a strong role model. What Buffy fan wouldn’t argue that Willow wasn’t pretty badass in her own right, what with her smarts, her computer hacking, and her magic? She doesn’t have to start wearing fishnets to be cool enough for your readers! (Not hyperbole, they are literally putting her character in fishnet stockings and midriff bearing tops like the costume that Willow wears in Halloween as an example of something that she would never ordinarily wear, this is now her everyday wardrobe apparently...) Also she grew in confidence over the course of the series, from the very beginning she was starting to find her voice through her friendship with Buffy, she was able to speak up as early as The Harvest to defend Buffy from Cordelia and her friends after previously slinking away and saying nothing in the pilot when Cordelia was bullying her
And anyway you have an example of female characters who are confident and speak their mind right there with Cordelia and Buffy, why is it so wrong to also have a shy and introverted character? Also I’m not sure I follow their argument on ‘a lot of more sort of bookish or nerdy girls have larger communities now that they can go with the Internet. So I think they've, again not that there aren't girls who are still like, you know, reserved or shy in real life, but I think they have an opportunity to learn more about themselves and build up more confidence because they can more easily find communities of people who are like them.’
I don’t see why that would make Willow more confident and this sexy dresser, isn’t it more likely that a shy and nerdy character like original Willow would just end up spending even more time online in today’s world? Finding friends and communities online that speak to you doesn’t necessarily translate to confidence in the real world after all
JB: Well again, I think like the reversal of Willow, I really liked Dru and her journey throughout the show and the books and stuff, and I really wanted to start her off strong and maybe a little brazen and arrogant. I think that her being a strong character and kind of being frightening, not because she's so unhinged because of what had happened to her in her history. I really wanted her to come off just completely like dominant, completely controlling, really frightening, just like The Master. Again, reversing the idea that there is a male antagonist to Buffy, but actually that her greatest foe could actually be a woman. That's sort of why we went with that for Dru. In my mind, I just want to see her starting off kicking ass, like right away. I don't want us to think, "Oh poor Dru." I want to kind of be like, "I don't want to be in the same room with her at all. She's horrifying."
That...completely erases her entire backstory from the show? And okay maybe this is nitpicking too much, but why slap the name Drusilla on to a Buffy character who has next to nothing in common with her? She was creepy and scary in the original concept of the character too, but there was also the tragedy of her being stalked and driven completely insane by Angelus, and they’ve completely ignoring all of that it sounds like. Fine if they want to genderbend the Master and do something different there, but combining an entirely different character with the Master makes no sense when those two characters could not be more different? Why not just call her The Mistress from the get-go and make her a new character, because this description sounds nothing like the shows Drusilla to me
JB: Well, I think Spike is a sweetheart. He's a big old sweetie pie. I'm a big Team Spike. I really like Spike, and I think that he is a poet. I mean, imagine how a poet's gonna get on with a domineering lady in his life. It's probably not going to be super great for Spike. I don't think he's gonna have a lot of agency. I don't think he's gonna have a lot of his own say or control of things. So that's sort of the relationship I'm interested to explore.
I think maybe originally he kind of pretended that he was a bit more equal than I think he actually felt comfortable. I think we're gonna lean into the fact that he's an outsider, even among outsiders, especially near Dru
The person being described here isn’t Spike at all, it’s William? Obviously they are the same person deep down, but Spike’s whole persona was to do everything he could to go against how he was as a human, that’s how ‘Spike’ was first created by William in the first place. It’s really nothing like the character of vampire Spike if you’re not going to capture that swaggering intro from season 2. And look I love Spike too, but ‘Well, I think Spike is a sweetheart. He's a big old sweetie pie...I think that he is a poet’ Really though?!
The whole description of sweetheart Spike not having a great time with a domineering lady in his life sounds super questionable and woobifying him to me in fact, especially when Drusilla’s character was all about exploring the terrifying concept of a young woman being stalked and victimised by a man until she lost her mind and entire sense of self, and now instead of that she’s going to be the one victimising Spike? In their rush to update some complex female characters and make them more typically ~badass~, it just sounds like they are tripping all over their good intentions
And again this all sounds like it has next to nothing in common with Spike and Dru from the show, so why not introduce brand some new characters if you want to make your villains something completely fresh and different? I absolutely get why they want to change things around and put their own spin on things, but at a certain point why even keep the same names when you are writing characters as the exact opposite of their season 2 selves?
And my final nitpick is that I read on ONTD that the Prophecy has been changed? It’s no longer "Into every generation a slayer is born: one girl in all the world, a chosen one. She alone will wield the strength and skill to fight the vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number. She is the Slayer."
It’s now
-"Into every generation a slayer is born; A Chosen One. They alone will wield the strength and skill to fight vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number. They are the Slayer."
That’s one of the most bizarre changes to me in fact, it’s meant to be more inclusive to use neutral pronouns I guess, but the whole concept of Buffy from the beginning was celebrating female power?
To be a little more positive though, I do like that the art looks miles better than the artist they used for the season 8 comics (the article has lots of examples of the inside art). I just wish they didn’t feel the need to completely change preexisting characters, while still giving them the same name. It’s interesting that I haven’t heard them discuss Buffy much actually, so I assume that means that she hasn’t been changed as much as the supporting cast?
Tags:
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 02:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 03:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 04:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 07:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 05:23 pm (UTC)The first issue is rather bland except for the art, which is pretty good aside from they're diligence with getting eye color wrong. I do not understand that at all. The colorist is the writer and if they can't get that Buffy doesn't have blue eyes, how am I going to believe they were paying attention to the characters themselves?
I'll keep up with it because they're easy to pirate, but meh. At least they are not trying to claim they are canon.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 07:47 pm (UTC)It’s good that they’re not trying to make them the official new canon though I agree, at this point there’s been so many different spin-offs with the comics and with books, even the possible rebooted tv series, that it’s impossible to keep track of them all!
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 06:09 pm (UTC)I obviously have never seen BUFFY, nor will I watch the "New!Buffy" but I'm SO so pissed off with ROSWELL, NEW MEXICO at the moment... I thought I'd at least check it out, to NOT write it off right away as I've loved the Original one and basically "grew up" with it and it was one of the first shows that had me ship 2 characters and all, and I watched and rewatched it like 10 times, and now this "new version" is just... bad... SO bad...
And suddenly Michael is gay and together with Alex (and Michael/Maria was one of my first ever OTPs!) and Maria is not even important and Liz had a sister who died and now thinks Max killed her and ugh...
It's just... not "my" Roswell at all... there is no magic to it, and the actors are SO bad (Even though I liked some of them in their previous roles) and I hate Julie Plec for completely destroying my show for me =(
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 08:54 pm (UTC)I guess they justify it to an extent because Roswell was based on a book series originally and so they can say that it’s based more on the books instead of the original tv series, but still I don’t see why everything needs to be rebooted and modernised these days. I would have actually loved a revival with the original actors, especially as this version apparently has them as adults in their 30’s and not going back to high school, so it feels like a real waste not to bring the original actors back and go from there.
The actors for Michael and Maria have openly said that they would be open to doing something more with Roswell (I think they were trying to get some kind of related YouTube spin off show off the ground for a bit?), the actor for Max hasn’t acted in years and is surely available, and probably the Liz actress could be talked into it as well as I believe she is directing an episode of the new series. The only actor they 100% wouldn’t be able to get back is Isobel, but otherwise I’m sure most of the original cast would have been happy to do something more with the franchise. They certainly all showed up for a reunion recently to talk about the show anyway
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 08:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 08:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 10:31 pm (UTC)I have seen the art before, and really like it ,but....meh.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 10:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-25 11:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 02:43 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 03:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 02:39 am (UTC)And all of this, to change their personalities and such, makes it seem super pointless. Their personalities in the original shouldn't be changed whatosever, even if you are "updating" it in a reboot for a modern audience. It just reeks of someone who never watched the original series or understood the point of their character arcs in the first place. It's so...OOC, it's like badfic when you read the descriptions of the changed personalities just to make it more fitting for whatever narrative them want to spin.
Idk. I was never really into the comics in the first place, aside from the one-shots like Fray that I thought were super cool. So obviously I'm not going to read or care for these, nor am I going to consider them part of canon (because they aren't). Just, ugh, why can't they leave things alone? I know that BTVS is still super relevant and people are still getting introduced to the show and such, which is great, by still why is this reboot comic even necessary?
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 02:55 am (UTC)I’ve never really been into comics either, I did buy the first library edition of season 8 and tried to give it a go, but just could not get into it. I think I would be able to get into the art-style of this one more actually, but huge meh to the character changes. Having a season 8 in comic format was never canon to me, but still it was an idea that made more sense imo as a follow up to the end of the tv series, even if it had a lot of issues as well, but hearing the writers here talking about how they are coming up with their own improved and modern version of Willow just really sets my teeth on edge.
I would be more interested in following the new book series that they’re setting up with a new slayer and a new cast of characters, or the tv series with a brand new slayer (if it ever gets off the ground that is), I don’t really see the need to go back to high school for a modern reboot of Buffy though. Some things are better off left alone
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 03:27 am (UTC)Also, what you said in the post:
That’s one of the most bizarre changes to me in fact, it’s meant to be more inclusive to use neutral pronouns I guess, but the whole concept of Buffy from the beginning was celebrating female power?
The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to change it. I mean, I also get probably wanting to be more inclusive with being neutral and everything, but it really doesn't make sense when, aside from the whole aspect of the series was about the power of women, the prophecy itself in-verse was created by the Watcher's Council who were entirely patriarchal. Which was what made the whole point of Buffy rejecting and refusing the Watcher's Council in the first place so incredibly important, not to mention the importance of everything in the series finale when all Potential Slayers ended up becoming Slayers. So wouldn't having this gender neutral prophecy (or a version of a prophecy like that) make more sense if it was already following an established canon post-Chosen? Why have it be in place before Buffy's entire legacy even happens?
Sorry, that just got to me the more I thought about it.
I would be more interested in following the new book series that they’re setting up with a new slayer and a new cast of characters, or the tv series with a brand new slayer
Exactly. Hell, when I heard initially that they were rebooting the comics I initially thought they were rebooting them from S8 or something, since I know that many fans of the series have mixed reactions to those for various reasons. But I would much rather see different Slayers and their stories being told instead rebooting the entire thing over again. It's just super unnecessary. I mean, this is why people were upset about the prospect of there being a remake of the television series in the first place, because it's super unneeded. So why did they decide to do this in comic form? Just, idk. :/
Again, I don't really care that much about the comics in the first place, but just reading on the changes really grinds my gears somehow. Like, you want to do a modern reboot in a "what if?" kinda way? Fine, but don't change the fundamental aspects of what made those characters who they are, because otherwise it's just OOC badfic.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 02:12 pm (UTC)And I think a lot of people feel similarly when it comes to wanting new stories with the slayers, I would LOVE a tv series looking at different slayers over the years for starters, it’s such a rich canon that I don’t know what the point is to keep retelling the story of Buffy. I guess it all comes down to money in the end as Mikeyg says, and they know it’s the Buffy name that sells the most. Even when the creator of the new tv series that’s being discussed has since said that she has no intention of using the Buffy characters themselves, you can tell that there’s a terror from the higher ups to relaunch the franchise without the Buffy name
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 03:26 am (UTC)Money. Since Fox owns BOOM, it's all pure profit more or less. They only had a few options. Reboot from S7, do fill-in-the-blank or reboot entirely. They've had success with other IPs rebooting, so that's what they did with Buffy.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 02:23 pm (UTC)You see the same attitude with the new tv series being discussed, they were keen originally to promote it as a Buffy remake, even though the creator has said since that she does want it to feature a new slayer and a new cast of characters, but the impression I can is that the higher ups cannot imagine relaunching the franchise with just slayer and leaving off the Buffy name all together
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 05:29 pm (UTC)I fully believe the original intent was a Buffy remake. That was met with universal NOPE. I know the runner came out awhile later and said it would be a different slayer, but I don't think it's a coincidence it seems to be dead since then. It's been like 7 months since and not a word about it.
I'm wary of all of it. I know some fans like the idea of the franchise continuing, whether it's like these reboot comics or continuations. They like that the 'verse continues in same way. Me... So many of things I like have gone that route and sooner or later the bad outweighs the good and the product is lessened. I don't like the idea of Buffy turning into Alien or Predator or Terminator.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 06:12 pm (UTC)Also I’ve been reading some fan reviews of the comics today, and it seems like even the character of Buffy herself has been changed a lot as well. I do feel kind of bad for being so grumpy about the comics when I’ve never even read them, and it does sound like they are very well done as comics to be fair, but it did stand out to me that even Buffy herself seems to have done a 180 from the tv series and from the film. This review mentions that she comes across as more of an introverted nerd who likes comic books than she does a former cheerleader, and she no longer seems to care about clothes much as she dresses very practically https://buffylikescoke.tumblr.com/post/182303065990/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-1
And at what point do we say that that sounds like a very cool new slayer character for today, but why exactly are you calling her Buffy Summers?
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 06:48 pm (UTC)Much like there was a point to Willow, there was an even bigger one to Buffy. She was the blonde, personable, popular, fashionable, preppy-ish girl that gets hacked up in an alley in horror films. Helen from IKWYDLS (I don't think it's a coincidence they lifted angles from that movie for Helpless). To change that, is to not be Buffy Summers. Even Giles, he's kind of like a wikipedia version of him. He's more S3 Wes than Giles. About the only character that is much like their TV counterpart is Xander.
The art is great (save the blue eyes whhyyyyy). That's about it.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 07:06 pm (UTC)I can't help but be bugged that the writers don't ever seem to have anything to say about her, either
And I find that very odd as well, in all of the questions about the character changes Buffy never really comes up, so I assumed that meant that she wasn’t going to be portrayed very differently. I would have thought the main character would be the first one you talk about when you’re selling your reboot though :shrugs:
And I would love a link if you have one! I have seen a d/l on my flist, but it doesn’t seem to work with my iPad when I click on it, and I’m still computerless at the moment
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 08:03 pm (UTC)For most links you need a cbr reader or something to change extensions to .rar and then unzip them. You might not have all that on a phone.
http://userscloud.com/1ud3p9wxerrf
You can read it here, though, without having to DL anything.
http://boards.4channel.org/co/thread/105491178
You can ignore everything after 105491440.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 09:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 05:54 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 02:25 pm (UTC)The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter, Friday, January 25
Date: 2019-01-26 11:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 03:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 04:50 pm (UTC)And Drusilla sounds like a completely different character anyway, so there’s that.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 07:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-26 09:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-27 03:47 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-27 06:51 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-27 06:54 pm (UTC)