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As Time Goes By was one of my favourite episodes of the season, I really enjoyed the time-travel aspect and the new mythology that was introduced with the Men Of Letters, and aww at how gleeful Dean was at finally having a home base. Hunteri Heroici was another episode that I really loved, I just loved the absurd humour of the cartoon world, as well as Castiel's attempts to be a hunter lol
Oh and I don't know if this moment was actually supposed to be funny, but I absolutely cracked up at Dean's annoyed whisper in Blood Brothers, 'That is NOT what I wanted to talk about' when Sam points out that he doesn't have any friends, all of his friends are dead *g*
I had a lot of issues with how Benny got treated in Torn And Frayed, Sam's self-righteousness over Benny felt really hypocritical for a start when he's always been the one to advocate giving the 'monsters' a chance in the past if there's any suggestion that they're not hurting anyone, and yet time and time again he refused to believe anything but the worst of Benny. It just felt like he refused to give Benny the benefit of the doubt because of jealousy over Dean's relationship with Benny. I ended up feeling really bad for Benny, he had no one in his life except for Dean, and he was pretty clearly desperate and in need of a friend when he got ditched :(
I must admit that Amelia never really worked for me, I found the actress quite wooden and charmless in the role, her line readings seemed really stiff in the beginning, but to be fair I don't think that the writing was giving her much to work with either. It seemed like the initial aim was for her to come across as snarky and ~feisty~, but instead it just came across as rude and unpleasant IMO. The writing for Benny was a lot stronger in comparison as his prickliness with Castiel for example made sense, and it was easy to understand why he would be defensive around Dean and Castiel as a vampire, whereas I was never sure where Amelia was supposed to be coming from when she was say lashing out at Sam for accidentally hitting a dog, even though he had brought it straight to the vet for treatment
I think that it would have been a much better choice to just have the one episode to properly devote to Sam's past with Amelia. Teasing the flashbacks worked better when it came to the mystery of what happened in purgatory, but it was hard to get invested in Amelia's character and her relationship with Sam when we were just given random snippets of their life together, it all felt really incoherent in the beginning. For example they could have opened one episode with Amelia presenting Sam with the birthday cake, and then used flashbacks in the rest of the episode to show how they got to that point, instead those scenes were so all over the place in the first half of the season that it was hard to get a handle on any of it. I guess that I can see what the writers were going for with Sam and Amelia both being damaged and trying to heal together, but I wasn't a fan of how they choose to tell it
And then, much like The Born-Again Identity from season 7 in fact and how it dealt with Sam's breakdown, Taxi Driver was also pretty disappointing and anti-climatic for me after it had the potential to be the emotional high point of the season. Sam going into Hell could have been a really epic episode (well and Dean too, I was never clear on why Sam HAD to do the trial alone), so I was really disappointed at how easy it suddenly was for Sam to access Hell and rescue Bobby simply by torturing a crossroads demon. It took an Angel to rescue Dean, but now Sam can just stroll into Hell and stumble across Bobby right away?
It also felt very convenient that Bobby was even in Hell in the first place when Sam needed to find someone to rescue from Hell, there was never any hint of that in the past, and it seems odd that Crowley would have that much power to just decide that he doesn't want Bobby going to Heaven. Honestly Bobby's characterisation didn't really work for me either, it felt like really one-note ~grumpy old man~ Bobby, but surely spending well over a year in Hell should have had a bigger effect on his character?
And massive eye roll at the writers again bringing up that Sam didn't look for Dean in purgatory, it seems an odd way to treat one of your main characters when you want to keep emphasising what a terrible brother he was to not look for his brother. It's one thing when it's the fans objecting to that and not understanding his motives, but it comes across like the writers don't really either when they keep having Sam just stand there looking guilty whenever it's brought up? At least they could have Sam explain more his reasons for not looking, outside of one mention in the premiere of believing that Dean was dead, but it's been brought up several times since then with Sam saying nothing in his defense everytime. I'm not sure why the writers would write it that way in the first place when they obviously think that it's going to reflect so poorly on his character?! If they had some deeper characterisation reason for it then okay, but as it stands it just seems to be a way for other characters to beat up on Sam for not being a good enough brother to Dean, even though it's really not in character for Sam to just not look for his brother because he can't be bothered, and yet that's almost the impression the show gives you in episodes like this when he offers no defence at all for his actions...
I was happier with how the finale left things for them though, and they did have some very sweet H/C moments while Sam was doing the trials :D
Oh and I don't know if this moment was actually supposed to be funny, but I absolutely cracked up at Dean's annoyed whisper in Blood Brothers, 'That is NOT what I wanted to talk about' when Sam points out that he doesn't have any friends, all of his friends are dead *g*
I had a lot of issues with how Benny got treated in Torn And Frayed, Sam's self-righteousness over Benny felt really hypocritical for a start when he's always been the one to advocate giving the 'monsters' a chance in the past if there's any suggestion that they're not hurting anyone, and yet time and time again he refused to believe anything but the worst of Benny. It just felt like he refused to give Benny the benefit of the doubt because of jealousy over Dean's relationship with Benny. I ended up feeling really bad for Benny, he had no one in his life except for Dean, and he was pretty clearly desperate and in need of a friend when he got ditched :(
I must admit that Amelia never really worked for me, I found the actress quite wooden and charmless in the role, her line readings seemed really stiff in the beginning, but to be fair I don't think that the writing was giving her much to work with either. It seemed like the initial aim was for her to come across as snarky and ~feisty~, but instead it just came across as rude and unpleasant IMO. The writing for Benny was a lot stronger in comparison as his prickliness with Castiel for example made sense, and it was easy to understand why he would be defensive around Dean and Castiel as a vampire, whereas I was never sure where Amelia was supposed to be coming from when she was say lashing out at Sam for accidentally hitting a dog, even though he had brought it straight to the vet for treatment
I think that it would have been a much better choice to just have the one episode to properly devote to Sam's past with Amelia. Teasing the flashbacks worked better when it came to the mystery of what happened in purgatory, but it was hard to get invested in Amelia's character and her relationship with Sam when we were just given random snippets of their life together, it all felt really incoherent in the beginning. For example they could have opened one episode with Amelia presenting Sam with the birthday cake, and then used flashbacks in the rest of the episode to show how they got to that point, instead those scenes were so all over the place in the first half of the season that it was hard to get a handle on any of it. I guess that I can see what the writers were going for with Sam and Amelia both being damaged and trying to heal together, but I wasn't a fan of how they choose to tell it
And then, much like The Born-Again Identity from season 7 in fact and how it dealt with Sam's breakdown, Taxi Driver was also pretty disappointing and anti-climatic for me after it had the potential to be the emotional high point of the season. Sam going into Hell could have been a really epic episode (well and Dean too, I was never clear on why Sam HAD to do the trial alone), so I was really disappointed at how easy it suddenly was for Sam to access Hell and rescue Bobby simply by torturing a crossroads demon. It took an Angel to rescue Dean, but now Sam can just stroll into Hell and stumble across Bobby right away?
It also felt very convenient that Bobby was even in Hell in the first place when Sam needed to find someone to rescue from Hell, there was never any hint of that in the past, and it seems odd that Crowley would have that much power to just decide that he doesn't want Bobby going to Heaven. Honestly Bobby's characterisation didn't really work for me either, it felt like really one-note ~grumpy old man~ Bobby, but surely spending well over a year in Hell should have had a bigger effect on his character?
And massive eye roll at the writers again bringing up that Sam didn't look for Dean in purgatory, it seems an odd way to treat one of your main characters when you want to keep emphasising what a terrible brother he was to not look for his brother. It's one thing when it's the fans objecting to that and not understanding his motives, but it comes across like the writers don't really either when they keep having Sam just stand there looking guilty whenever it's brought up? At least they could have Sam explain more his reasons for not looking, outside of one mention in the premiere of believing that Dean was dead, but it's been brought up several times since then with Sam saying nothing in his defense everytime. I'm not sure why the writers would write it that way in the first place when they obviously think that it's going to reflect so poorly on his character?! If they had some deeper characterisation reason for it then okay, but as it stands it just seems to be a way for other characters to beat up on Sam for not being a good enough brother to Dean, even though it's really not in character for Sam to just not look for his brother because he can't be bothered, and yet that's almost the impression the show gives you in episodes like this when he offers no defence at all for his actions...
I was happier with how the finale left things for them though, and they did have some very sweet H/C moments while Sam was doing the trials :D
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(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 03:22 pm (UTC)So, my point of telling you all off this is... no, you're not the only one who hadn't seen S8, yet. ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 03:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 05:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 06:23 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 03:31 pm (UTC)And the old lady who kept calling him Charles and he just went along with it.
Oh Cas, ILU so much. =D
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 03:47 pm (UTC)ETA Oh and I also really loved later in the season when Castiel is so desperate to buy pie for Dean!!! :D
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 04:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 04:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 02:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 01:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 05:16 pm (UTC)Sam thinking Dean was dead...and deciding for once not to ruin himself and the world getting Dean back - i get that, totally, and Sam was trying to have a life, that he knew Dean wanted for him. But then the writers kind of veered from that and made it all 'he just shrugged it all off' and i have *no idea* wtf they were going for there, it was just weird. I think they kind of lost the plot a bit, season seven, struggled through season eight, and finally got back on track with nine.
There were, yes, some *amazing* moments, through the trials, of Sam and Dean reconnecting in a real way, and some amazing Sam moments, and even Crowley moments.
The Bunker is so fucking *amazing*, I love it. They needed a base. They needed a bit of stability and safety, after all this time, and now that Bobby is gone. Hunteri Heroici was hilarious, with the Wile E. Coyote moments and the freeze-frame thing (I remember that so strongly from my childhood). And the last shot of Castiel, just sitting and listening to the mental music with...B. J. Hunnecutt! Heh. I know that wasn't the character name, but I can't remember.
And the *very* final scene, of the angels falling? Omg. That was so incredible, and so heartbreaking, and so....*world-ending*, you know? It looked like the beginning of the end, thousands of lights falling from the sky, just crazy.
I think you'll enjoy season nine, quite a bit, though it has it's moments of 'omg, no, no, no!!!'
:)
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 06:16 pm (UTC)And exactly, in the premiere it felt much more balanced, so you could understand why Dean was so hurt at Sam not looking for him, but also understand why Sam had learnt his lesson and would not want to tear the world apart trying to bring his brother back from the dead, but then the rest of the season seemed to just take on the tone of what a crappy brother Sam was to not ~bother~ looking? I wonder if it was because they wanted something like that to give Sam a lot of guilt in the finale when Dean is trying to talk him down, but c'mon he would have never just abandoned Dean in Purgatory if he believed that he was still alive and there was a way of getting him back, that doesn't fit with his past characterisation at all. The writers could have given Sam more chance to explain that he believed that Dean was dead and that he just lost hope, rather than zero Sam PoV when he's just stood there looking guilty at 'you did look for your brother?'
Agreed on how incredible the image of the Angels falling was :) And the bunker is definitely a great set, I really appreciated how they managed to tie in that past with the Winchester's so smoothly without it feeling shoehorned in
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 08:02 pm (UTC)Yeah, they *never* gave Sam any real reason for doing what he was doing, though you could extrapolate guilt and PTSD and extreme mental and physical exhaustion and all kinds of things that make it totally plausible. They just never actually *wrote* any of that, which was kinda stupid.
The bunker is marvelous! So much more to see there, in the coming seasons. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 09:24 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 03:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 10:37 pm (UTC)On one hand, he keeps having characters go on about how great Sam is, how much sacrifices he makes and so on, and on the other hand, they have Sam pretty much acting like an asshole
I also didn't get why they kept wasting time on the Amelia flashbacks that never went anywhere, while instantly dropping the far more interesting Dean flashbacks.
But then Carver, imo doesn't really seem to care for Dean or Dean's viewpoint all that much.
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 09:42 am (UTC)Agreed on the Amelia flashbacks, I really didn't think that they needed to spend half a season on them. If there had just been a couple of episodes with more focused flashbacks, I think that would have worked much better when it came to trying to tell a story with an emotional focus, whereas Purgatory was more about the mystery of what happened down there with Dean, Castiel, and Benny, so those short flashback teases worked a lot better
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 09:59 am (UTC)As viewers we got to see Dean was hurt, mostly due to Jensen's acting, but it's like the writers didn't care about it, and hence they saw no reason for Sam to explain himself. It's why Sam's constant blackmailing of Dean to shut up or he'd leave, only made Sam look worse. And don't even get me started on that horrendous scene in the s8 season finale, where after a season of Sam telling Dean that he didn't want to be with him, he suddenly starts talking how he doesn't want Dean to have any other friends either.
I loved Sam up until s8, but S8 is the season that made me lose all sympathy for Sam. (s9 is when I lost all interest in Cas' feelings)
For me, the biggest mistake they made was to give the trials storyline to Sam. If they'd let Dean do the trials, then Sam could have redeemed himself by taking care of Dean and showing that he doesn't think of Dean as a burden. But nope, can't have that, it must be all about Dean looking after Sam.
It's why s10 was the first time since s8 began, that I actually started to care somewhat about Sam again. But by that point, it was way overdue.
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 10:32 am (UTC)Nor did I ever feel like Sam was constantly blackmailing Dean over how he was gonna leave, he expressed his wishes to Dean for a normal life, but I never felt like Sam was using those wishes as a threat, he was just feeling disconnected from the hunting lifestyle in the beginning of the season and Dean was trying to convince him otherwise.
And yeah, I agree that Dean has always been a caretaker for Sam, but then that's been his characterisation since the first season IMO, I've never felt like that means that the storyline doesn't care about Dean's feelings as well.
Maybe it's just a case of agreeing to disagree :)
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-24 10:42 pm (UTC)That came up again in this week's episode, S11 ep 10!
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 09:29 am (UTC)ETA But actually I'm not surprised that it's still coming up in season 11 lol, can I ask if it was Dean that brought it up again? Because in season 8 I noticed that Dean always has that list of Sam's past mistakes on the tip of his tongue (Ruby, letting out Lucifer, losing his soul in the cage etc), even though you would really think that would have been forgiven after Sam sacrificed himself in the season 5 finale to make up for those past mistakes. Dean seemed so shocked in the season 8 finale when Sam was suicidal and beating himself up over being a crappy brother, but then there is always that sense that Dean *is* still holding his past mistakes against him. I mean the beginning of the episode had Dean being very quick to ask just what sins Sam was planning on confessing, just so that he could offer up a list of suggestions for him....
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 01:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 01:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 02:05 pm (UTC)It's Lucifer. He takes Sam on a 'walk' down memory lane and interestingly, they visit Sam when he was with Amelia.
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 04:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-27 04:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 03:21 pm (UTC)I dropped out again mid-season 10, for Librarians-related reasons, and I still miss SPN, but haven't been able to get back into it again. It's mostly frustrating anyway, since the writers do everything in their power to show how Dean and Cas can never be a couple.
I admit I've never been interested in Sam that much, so everything you mention that happened to him during season 8, I had pretty much already forgotten again... I really loved Purgatory and Benny, though. I remember all of that. *g*
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 04:23 pm (UTC)It's mostly frustrating anyway, since the writers do everything in their power to show how Dean and Cas can never be a couple.
I did watch some of the early season 10 episodes (my watching of SPN is all over the place!), and I remember finding it frustrating how much Cas was separated from Dean and Sam, especially when honestly I don't find his plots with the angels all that interesting a lot of the time. I much prefer him in scenes where he gets to play off Dean and Sam, but from I understand he gets separated so much in his own subplots so that Jensen and Jared can get more time off?
I admit I've never been interested in Sam that much, so everything you mention that happened to him during season 8, I had pretty much already forgotten again...
Well his ~normal life~ plot in season 8 was pretty boring :P
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 08:00 pm (UTC)I did watch some of the early season 10 episodes (my watching of SPN is all over the place!)
10x05? I admit I'm a sucker for all their "drop the fourth wall" episodes. That one was so good.
I much prefer him in scenes where he gets to play off Dean and Sam
Yeah, me, too.
(no subject)
Date: 2016-01-25 10:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-05-13 03:58 am (UTC)I do think that Sam's reaction and actions toward Benny, and even the fact that he believed Dean to be dead and quit hunting all together, probably all has to do with his own feelings of worthlessness that we see at the end of the season. The Benny eps are very hard to watch though because of it. If anything good came of Taxi Driver, it was that Sam reconciled himself with Benny. I agree about the ridiculousness of Hell and Purgatory that ep. It could have been so good. It's unfortunate.
(no subject)
Date: 2016-05-13 11:56 am (UTC)I've loved all of the time-travel episodes too, and any of the Robbie Thompson episodes have been great. He's became my favourite writer since Ben Edlund left
I agree about the ridiculousness of Hell and Purgatory that ep. It could have been so good. It's unfortunate.
Yeah I know they don't have the biggest budget, but they managed to do a good job of showing only a brief glimpse of hell at the end of season 3 and seemed to understand that less was more in that case, or in season 6 just having Castiel talking about Heaven and the angels battles happening off-screen.
I felt the same when they started showing Crowley just hanging out with demons in hell actually, it felt too cheesy and the suspension of belief didn't quite work for me, I wish they would leave those bigger concepts of heaven and hell more to our imagination