(no subject)

[frelling_tralk]

I've just wasted way too much time on http://actualteenadultteen.tumblr.com/ lol, they put together a picture of an actor playing 16 or 17 alongside a picture of what they actually looked like when they were were that age. It's so weird to see Hollywood's example of what passes for teenage in tv and film










I always thought Sarah and Alyson passed okay actually (well Sarah was only 2 or 3 years older than the part anyway), but Nicky and Charisma were ridiculously obvious when they were both close to 30 and still playing 16/17 wtf. And Joss did hire an actual teenager for the part of Kendra unusually, but Bianca Lawson is 31 in the second pic and still playing a teenager...

Comments

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Hee I heard that! It's so messed up when an actress is playing the true age for once, and it still has to be adjusted *g* Other Buffy actors playing their correct age were Michelle as Dawn of course, although that did result in the writers treating the character as younger than being 14 and 15 really warranted. And Eliza was actually 17 when she was playing Faith and had to be legally emancipated so she could work the hours on-set. I always feel like that's something people forgot about Eliza compared to Michelle though, maybe because she came off as quite mature compared to most 17 year olds?

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Eliza was 17? I was just rewatching Dollhouse and thinking, does this woman age? But that explains it. She so seemed like an older actress. But maybe that's just the Faith character, you know?

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yep, although I'm not sure whether she had turned 18 by the time of doing the darker sex stuff in Consequences? Michelle was pretty much still seen as a kid and was chaffing against it when she was 17 at the end of Bts, so it's just odd when you hear Nicky Brenden talk about the pasties that kept slipping off Eliza during their sex scene in The Zeppo and how much he enjoyed the scene for that reason, it's like everyone forgot that she was barely of age when she first played Faith!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

she came off as quite mature compared to most 17 year olds?

I was surprised when I read Eliza was actually 17 at the time - basically the only actor who was the age they were supposed to be playing. Her styling, makeup, clothes, body etc had a LOT to do with that of course; it's how they get 13 amd 13 year old models to look like young adult women. On some level though I think it worked for the character because it implied that a hard life of defending herself and taking care of herself had prematurely aged her on one level emotionally. (but that's also a stereotype of poor working class kids; esp black or hispanic girls who are thought to be "sexually precocious". Faith is actually IMO a repository for a lot of those beliefs, she's the stand-in WOC, without the actual complications of race. Esp after they muffed-up Kendra big-time.)

I know the writers were responsible for failing to adjust MT's behavior to fit her actual age, but that also works for me on some levels, or at least i can fanwank that handily. 1) What would a bunch of monks know about teenagers?
2) Dawn has "memories" of her previous 14 years that have no basis in physical reality; her whole arc is about making herself "real". She has to grow up in a hurry.
3) Baby of the family, designed by the monks to be coddled and over-protected. A more mature-seeming, independent girl would have resisted that. Then after Buffy's death, of course everyone feels sorry for the sisterless, motherless girl and will tend to coddle and overprotect because the habit is already there. And as we've seen, the SG doesn't deal well with grief, for all the death in their world.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

It does tend to take the wind out of my sails sometimes lol when you're all 'oh there's no way you can expect us to ever buy that actor as 17', but then on occasion there really are 16 and 17 year olds that look a lot older then you would have thought. I didn't think that Eliza looked all that old, especially in the early season 3 episodes, but I certainly wouldn't have put her at 17 either. A lot of it was in how confidentally she carried herself, whereas Michelle did more have that awkwardness and gawky body language that we generally associate with teens

And heh I did fanwank it to an extent in season 5 because it was understandable that the monks would would to implant memories and instincts to make the people around Dawn be over protective of her, and there seemed to be the occasional wink to it even with Dawn complaining that at 14 she's old enough to be a babysitter, or Buffy not wanting Dawn to go across the street to see her friend because 'I don't like you hanging out with someone that short'. It was mostly season 6 where it started really bugging me with Tara still asking Dawn if she wants her pancakes made in funny shapes when Dawn was pushing 16 that season ffs, although I suppose it can be argued that the protective urges towards Dawn just naturally carried over from how they remembered always treating her

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

A lot of it was in how confidentally she carried herself, whereas Michelle did more have that awkwardness and gawky body language that we generally associate with teens

Oddly enough Eliza looking "older" as Faith then works to advantage in S7, when Sarah is looking more her own age than Buffy's - then they match up very well and still seem the same age.

But then I can think of a few moments in S3 where Faith seems younger and sweeter (waiting at the window for Buffy & drawing the heart on the glass in Bad Girls for instance, and she's so disarming in those moments.)

but i do think there's a certain amount of the old stereotype with Faith that middle and upper class people have held for probably hundreds of years about the supposed sexual precociousness of lower class women (peasants, immigrants, WOC, etc) which allowed people to dismiss but also use such women without a thought in terms of sexual intercourse (servants, slaves, mistresses, prostitutes) and not have to justify it later.

I suppose it can be argued that the protective urges towards Dawn just naturally carried over from how they remembered always treating her

And again, her entire family has just died within less than a year (And Buffy violently so to save Dawn) so being overprotective and wanting to be sympathetic comes naturally; none of the SG are parents themselves and are barely 20yrs old. The only one I assume has caregiver experience would be Tara for her mom, but she was also a child at the time. Giles doesn't know how to parent.

And I think what I said about Dawn's memories not based in physical fact could also be applied to Buffy and the SG - they haven't had to deal with the physical reality behind the supposed memories and are just learning.

Weirdly enough none of that impulse to be sympathetic and overprotective comes Buffy's way after she's resurrected but I think there's a kernel of RL truth to that (although the show handled it badly sometimes for comedy and pushed it to extremes): strong, capable women are assumed to be able to handle all the shit and responsibilities that come their way, to handle everything and women are encouraged to do just that. To NOT ask for help, so that when a woman is finally is able to, the people around her don't know how to give it or there is no one around to even ask. (My mom endured that, people saying "Oh she's strong she'll be fine" through two abusive marriages, two divorces, widowhood, four small kids, etc.)

Asking for help is actually considered a weakness.

But boy did Dawn tick me off sometimes in S6, identity issues or no, and I love the Summers sisters, BUT - I wanted Buffy to delegate and tell Dawn to get her skinny ass out to the garbage cans or something. Your sister sacrificed her LIFE for you? Show some RESPECT. But then again I was a latchkey kid out of necessity with my siblings from the time I was quite young, so there are areas where I have sympathy with Dawn but not much patience at the same time. (So ok, not entirely objective here.)

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yes! I really liked Dawn in Afterlife and wish they could have kept more of that vibe of her also looking after Buffy and being protective of her. It really sucked when they portrayed her as trying to get out of her chores in Normal Again or telling Buffy in AYW to take the garbage out. I know the writers wanted to pile it all on Buffy, but personally it would have made more sense to me to make them more of a team after the loss of their mother, not just treating Dawn as another burden on Buffy

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oh yes I LOVED that scene in After Life and her protectiveness there. The irony of course is that she's also blind to the reality but c'mon, she's freakin' 15 and her sister just came back from the grave. (Dawn's expression at the end of Bargaining is the exact opposite of LtF, when Joyce said "it's all right, baby" and Dawn's face implied she knew better than that. In Bargaining it's Dawn who is briefly in Joyce's role.)

I can see them pulling apart and arguing but also as you say come together - there's a prickliness to their relationship that I recognize from my own childhood with my sibs. Life is difficult, you're in a metaphorical "war zone" (or literally as with Buffy & Dawn) and you fight because that's what you learned from you're parents but the trials also make the bonds incredibly strong. You're love for one another doesn't look like the Hallmark card or laundry detergent commercial version of the perfect family.

I really think that a key part of Buffy's depression has to do with unfinished grief over her mother's death; she had to put that on hold to protect Dawn and grief is something that takes years to work through, if ever; the most some people can hope for is that it lessens over time. There are nods to this re: Buffy in NA, BoTW (the First as Joyce) and Joyce's photo next to the couch in Villains, DT, Help, etc; and also in Buffy and Dawn's fight in the Bronze in Him (I really love that scene, Sarah and Michelle have the sister dynamic nailed).

We never do get a scene where Buffy and Dawn get to talk about what happened in The Gift, but the show rarely has anything like that anyway. (Instead we get buffy self-flagellating that she's not doing enough to take care of Dawn. And WHO is taking care of Buffy?)This is where fanfic theoretically SHOULD come in to fill the gaps- but unless I hang out in the wrong places in fandom, I haven't seen much if anything on that, and I'm surprised. (Or nothing all that good in terms of quality.)