![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
With 'No Mas' honestly I really didn't get the crawling to the altar at all the first time I watched lol and I think I was too 'wtf is going on' to really appreciate it at the time, but I liked seeing the Cousins a lot more on rewatch once I better got who those characters were and what the point of them all crawling was :P Beautiful cinematography as ever
Walt's speech at the school assembly was sooo awkward and horrible that I was just cringing heh, especially when it kept cutting to everyone else's wtf reaction shots. At the same time though it did suggest that he must feel SOME personal responsibly for it still if he's going to work that hard at rationalising it to himself and looking up all of the worst plane disasters to compare it too. Hmm. Also of course burning the money, even if he does later change his mind. I don't know how much of it is feeling guilty for the meth manufacturing and plane crash though, and how much of it is just wanting to end the the meth manufacturing because he blames it for losing his family. Probably more the latter? When he turns down Gus's offer he does say it's because he wants his family back. He also points out to Gus that he has more money now that knows what to do with, which takes away the excuse that he will have to get back into the business to make more money...
I did aww at Walt picking Jesse up from rehab and Jesse noticing that 'your windshield's broken' hee. And aww, this really is the start of subdued and broken Jesse :sighs: And Walt trying to suggest to Jesse that 'in spite of how bad things got it really could be looked at as a wake up call', again reinforces my suspicion that that's what he hoped the death of Jane would be for Jesse. And typical Walt arrogance with him trying to tell Jesse that he's very up to date on the plane crash, far more than you are, and there are many factors at work there and he blames the government. And there's Jesse looking so sad and saying you either run from things or you face them, and he's accepted that he's the bad guy
With 'Caballo Sin Nombre' was I the only one who didn't get why the cop overreacted the way he did?? I mean yeah Walt was acting like a big baby having a tantrum lol, but it's not like he was physically threatening the cop in any way whatsoever, I really didn't get why he suddenly pepper-sprayed him. Surely that wasn't legal? Walt did have a lot of rage issues this episode what with throwing the pizza (lol!) on the roof as well when Skyler wouldn't let him in
Oh and I wondered if it was meant as a callback to his conversation with Jesse last episode when Walt talks about he can't be the bad guy...
I loved the last five minutes with the Cousins already tracking Walter down (something I did not expect to happen as fast as did when I was first watching!), and then how unbearably tense it gets with Walt singing in the shower as they're juust sat on the bed waiting for him to come out. With an ax.
And Jesse's parents really are irredeemably awful in this episode. I defended them in season 1 when their portrayal was a lot more balanced I felt, but his Dad was way too cold here to not even let Jesse in to see the house or agree to have him over for dinner, even though Jesse clearly was clean and very different from when they last dealt with him. It just seemed like his parents didn't care any more? It was all about the money from the house for them, so I LOVED Jesse getting the house back from them with Saul's help by revealing the meth lab in the basement
I was so upset on Skyler's behalf in 'I.F.T', the position that Walt put her in with the police was just painful to watch. (I'm amazed tht Anna Gunn never got nominated for an Emmy for season 3 as she was astonishingly good there at making you feel what Skyler was feeling!) Urgh that was the most loathsome I've found Walt so far, I hated how he backed Skylar into a corner and forced her to stay married to him, so I was cheering at 'I fucked Ted'. How lame having to bleep out the 'fuck' on the DVD though, especially in the same episode when we see a guy about to have his head cut off, but god forbid we hear one swear word???
I don't think it was all about Walt missing his family by any means though, I got the feeling that Walt also needed an outlet for his need to feel powerful and in control now that he's quit the drug world, and establishing his place in the family home was the next best thing. He was so pathetic in the previous episode when Skylar called about the restraining order and he had to grab his genitals and shout "restraint this" LMAO. Oh and more spiteful anger in this episode when Skylar locks him out of the bedroom, so he pees in the sink. Really thought why doesn't Skyler just make something up about why she threw Walt out and is so angry at him?? It's not like he can call her on it when he has to keep the real truth hidden, but it seems like she just expects Walt Junior to understand why she threw his cancer-striken father out, never bothered with ANY explanation, and is then hurt when he takes his father's side??
'Green Light' kind of summed up Walt and Jesse's relationship with Walt at first genuinely trying to be supportive and encouraging to Jesse, even calling him son, but I couldn't help but laugh at him not not being able to come up with anything that Jesse is good at (hey he's good at drawing!). It was so sad but expected to see the scene turn around and Walt absolutely lose it as soon as he realises that Jesse is using his formula. It felt like flashbacks to when he taught Jesse at school with 'this is very sloppy work, Pinkman'. I was always surprised when a lot of people took for granted that Walt was telling the truth about Jesse's product being inferior though, I thought it was obvious in that scene that he was grasping at straws trying to pick on a way Jesse went wrong, only for Jesse to come back with the right answer on how he cooked the meth every time. If it was a cheap knock-off then Walt would have just laughed it off as pathetic, it was because it was so close to his own formula that he got as angry as he did
There's a lot more of Walt struggling with his temper in this episode actually, starting from the pathetic attempts to get to Ted (LMAO), and then the fight with Saul, "I'm a big crybaby who won't cook meth!" The show has really been doing a good job of building up how powerless Walt feels without getting to play at being Heisenberg. Not to justify his freak out to Jesse at all, buuut I can kind of understand where it came from after just finding out that his wife was sleeping with another man, AND just getting fired, it couldn't have helped to then see his protege taking over the drug business without him... Especially with his belief of what happened before with Elliot making millions off of Walt's research. Not that that excuses it at all though, poor Jesse he was so proud and excited to show Walt his meth :P
With both Elliot and Jesse it seems that Walt himself wanted to leave the business and wasn't forced out (that's my impression of the Ellion and Gretchen backstory so far at least), but then considered it the worst kind of betrayal for his former partners to decide to go it alone and "steal" his work. But if they've put their own hard work and investment into the business then it shouldn't just be down to Walt alone to decide that everything shuts up shop without him, and Jesse did offer him half the profits, just as we will later found out that Elliot brought out Walt's share in Gray Matter with what everyone considered a fair price at the time. Elliot didn't even seem aware of any friction at his birthday party or that they had parted on bad terms, which suggests that it was only when Elliot made a huge success of the company that Walt started brooding to himself about how all of the research was stolen from his own ideas. And honestly Gray Matter would never have been the success that it was if Walt were running it, he's so obsessed with his own ego and wanting to receive sole credit for any success. In some ways maybe being a high school teacher was the right career for him as it gives him the chance to lord it over slacker students like Jesse and belittle them, something that wouldn't work out nearly so well for him in a professional place of business
"Mas" gets us back to what we've all been waiting for all season with Walt back to cooking! After how pathetic he's been in the first four episodes you can really see how much he relishes putting Jesse in his place with warnings not to even think about cooking HIS formula again (no Elliot issues there!). Plus having Saul back working for him under Walt's terms of 5%, lol at Saul trying desperately to bargain with Walt, "Any lower than ten and I can't respect myself...Five!" Gus played Walt beautifully by getting that it wasn't just about the money for Walt, it was about the pride he takes in being the man and "the man provides". Love the music playing as Walt checks out his swanky new lab :)
And this is a bit of a ramble, but I like how Walt clearly sees himself and Gus as similar because they're both "professionals", even though they're almost exact opposites with Gus only caring about the money and being happy to stay under the radar and just pass himself off as someone who works in fastfood. The total opposite of how angry Walt was last season when Saul offered good alternative suggestions of how his family could get the money without knowing who was behind it. If anything, much as he despised him, Walt is way more like Tuco with his need to be flashy and have power behind the Heisenberg name.
I know those gifs are from season 5, but I couldn't resist using them! Anyways, end ramble :P
And taking a break from the Walt/Skyler marriage drama really helps pick up the pace in 'Sunset' with an almost unbearably tense sequence as Hank waits outside the RV while Walt and Jesse hide inside. And even after his bonding with Gale, Walt still seems sad to see the RV being torn apart. Aww at his sad little glance at Jesse (who looks totally devastated!) Walt was kind of dense though not to pick up on how overqualified Gale was as a lab assistant and how he was clearly training his replacement...I guess that he really does view himself as irreplaceable!
Gus's final speech with the cousins was kind of annoying just because I don't speak Spanish! I could pick up the gist of it when Gus mentioned Hank's name, but really could have done with some subtitles there
I really liked how "One Minute" dealt with Hank wrestling with his conscience and how he insisted on telling on telling the truth on what happened with beating up Jesse. Dean Norris really deserves at least one emmy nod for BB! The moment of Hank crying in Marie's arms is one of my favourites, Marie's support of Hank was so touching in this episode when he talks to her about how he's been unraveling for a while and it wouldn't be right to try and lie and cover up the beating. Hmm actually I did think Jesse's speech about how he would ruin Hank's life went on a bit too long and was kind of OT though, although I suppose it got across the point effectively enough at just how angry he was. It just felt too obviously scripted and overwritten to me I guess. I liked the contrast with Jesse blaming Hank and Walt for his misery and looking for revenge, while Hank is totally ready to take responsibility for his actions and even willing to risk losing his career rather than cover up what he did
And well does it even need saying how intense that final minute was with Hank waiting for the cousins to appear!!! Opening up to Marie about how badly he's been coping with the panic attacks actually seemed to help Hank as he dealt with the Cousin's pretty well and didn't have another panic attack like you might have expected.
And this is probably a very unpopular opinion but, while Jesse's speech to Walt is heartbreaking and brilliantly-acted, I think I've just seen that speech used one too many times in YT video's with people taking it at face value. And just no. Yes we the viewer are all too aware of how Walt left Jane to die, but as far as Jesse is aware Jane died because they were both using drugs and she OD'd from it (if anything Walt was the one to express concern about them doing heroin and warning Jesse off it...), and then Jesse lost contact with his parents because of one too many failed trips to rehab causing them to give up on him. Well that and the house deal-breaker. So I don't agree with Jesse blaming losing everything and everyone in his life on "ever since I teamed up with the great heisenberg". I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, I suppose I just see this speech as a good example of how much of the audience then started seeing Jesse as this lost and hurting little kid whose life was ruined because of Walt, but I just don't think it's as simple as that
If anything I thought the speech was more about expressing Jesse's hurt at Walt cutting him out of the business in the way that he did, it was really being told that his cook was garbage that he was lashing out at Walt for. Which granted was a shitty thing to do no question, but at the same time that doesn't equal being responsible for all of the misery in Jesse's life IMO and Jesse losing his family. I'm not saying that it wasn't moving though seeing how much pain Jesse was in, and I liked how Walt had nothing to say in response except to finally give Jesse the approval he was asking for, it was as close as we've ever seen him come to a real apology with Jesse. Even if he doesn't always like Jesse all that much, it's clear that he is still emotionally invested in Jesse's well-being
It was kind of a cool parallel I thought with Jesse being so angry at Walt because of being disrespected and told that his meth was garbage, just as Walt previously flew off the handle because of perceiving Jesse as disrespecting him and stealing his formula. A lot of comments get made about Walt's need for respect and validation from his family and the people around him, but in "One Minute" Jesse is just as desperate to hear a good job from his sort of mentor Walt, and was so hurt at his previous dismissal that he threated to use Walt as his free pass with the DEA. The difference between the two of them being of course that by season 5 Jesse has grown a lot and really gets that being able to cook meth well is nothing to be proud of, while Walt gets ever more deluded with his belief that building a meth empire will be his way of making up for being cut out of Gray Matter
And Walt attempting to discredit Gale was obviously because he needed Jesse back working with him, but there was also a suggestion that he wasn't thrilled at how well Gale had everything running without him. I don't think it was about finally waking up to Gale being a possible threat of replacing him one day though, but more about Walt always needing to be the smartest person in the room. Walt might have first thought that Gale was the ideal partner for him as he was more of an equal than Jesse ever was, but there is definitely a part of Walt that needs to feel indispensable after the indignity of seeing Gray Matter thrive without him
Walt's speech at the school assembly was sooo awkward and horrible that I was just cringing heh, especially when it kept cutting to everyone else's wtf reaction shots. At the same time though it did suggest that he must feel SOME personal responsibly for it still if he's going to work that hard at rationalising it to himself and looking up all of the worst plane disasters to compare it too. Hmm. Also of course burning the money, even if he does later change his mind. I don't know how much of it is feeling guilty for the meth manufacturing and plane crash though, and how much of it is just wanting to end the the meth manufacturing because he blames it for losing his family. Probably more the latter? When he turns down Gus's offer he does say it's because he wants his family back. He also points out to Gus that he has more money now that knows what to do with, which takes away the excuse that he will have to get back into the business to make more money...
I did aww at Walt picking Jesse up from rehab and Jesse noticing that 'your windshield's broken' hee. And aww, this really is the start of subdued and broken Jesse :sighs: And Walt trying to suggest to Jesse that 'in spite of how bad things got it really could be looked at as a wake up call', again reinforces my suspicion that that's what he hoped the death of Jane would be for Jesse. And typical Walt arrogance with him trying to tell Jesse that he's very up to date on the plane crash, far more than you are, and there are many factors at work there and he blames the government. And there's Jesse looking so sad and saying you either run from things or you face them, and he's accepted that he's the bad guy
With 'Caballo Sin Nombre' was I the only one who didn't get why the cop overreacted the way he did?? I mean yeah Walt was acting like a big baby having a tantrum lol, but it's not like he was physically threatening the cop in any way whatsoever, I really didn't get why he suddenly pepper-sprayed him. Surely that wasn't legal? Walt did have a lot of rage issues this episode what with throwing the pizza (lol!) on the roof as well when Skyler wouldn't let him in
Oh and I wondered if it was meant as a callback to his conversation with Jesse last episode when Walt talks about he can't be the bad guy...
I loved the last five minutes with the Cousins already tracking Walter down (something I did not expect to happen as fast as did when I was first watching!), and then how unbearably tense it gets with Walt singing in the shower as they're juust sat on the bed waiting for him to come out. With an ax.
And Jesse's parents really are irredeemably awful in this episode. I defended them in season 1 when their portrayal was a lot more balanced I felt, but his Dad was way too cold here to not even let Jesse in to see the house or agree to have him over for dinner, even though Jesse clearly was clean and very different from when they last dealt with him. It just seemed like his parents didn't care any more? It was all about the money from the house for them, so I LOVED Jesse getting the house back from them with Saul's help by revealing the meth lab in the basement
I was so upset on Skyler's behalf in 'I.F.T', the position that Walt put her in with the police was just painful to watch. (I'm amazed tht Anna Gunn never got nominated for an Emmy for season 3 as she was astonishingly good there at making you feel what Skyler was feeling!) Urgh that was the most loathsome I've found Walt so far, I hated how he backed Skylar into a corner and forced her to stay married to him, so I was cheering at 'I fucked Ted'. How lame having to bleep out the 'fuck' on the DVD though, especially in the same episode when we see a guy about to have his head cut off, but god forbid we hear one swear word???
I don't think it was all about Walt missing his family by any means though, I got the feeling that Walt also needed an outlet for his need to feel powerful and in control now that he's quit the drug world, and establishing his place in the family home was the next best thing. He was so pathetic in the previous episode when Skylar called about the restraining order and he had to grab his genitals and shout "restraint this" LMAO. Oh and more spiteful anger in this episode when Skylar locks him out of the bedroom, so he pees in the sink. Really thought why doesn't Skyler just make something up about why she threw Walt out and is so angry at him?? It's not like he can call her on it when he has to keep the real truth hidden, but it seems like she just expects Walt Junior to understand why she threw his cancer-striken father out, never bothered with ANY explanation, and is then hurt when he takes his father's side??
'Green Light' kind of summed up Walt and Jesse's relationship with Walt at first genuinely trying to be supportive and encouraging to Jesse, even calling him son, but I couldn't help but laugh at him not not being able to come up with anything that Jesse is good at (hey he's good at drawing!). It was so sad but expected to see the scene turn around and Walt absolutely lose it as soon as he realises that Jesse is using his formula. It felt like flashbacks to when he taught Jesse at school with 'this is very sloppy work, Pinkman'. I was always surprised when a lot of people took for granted that Walt was telling the truth about Jesse's product being inferior though, I thought it was obvious in that scene that he was grasping at straws trying to pick on a way Jesse went wrong, only for Jesse to come back with the right answer on how he cooked the meth every time. If it was a cheap knock-off then Walt would have just laughed it off as pathetic, it was because it was so close to his own formula that he got as angry as he did
There's a lot more of Walt struggling with his temper in this episode actually, starting from the pathetic attempts to get to Ted (LMAO), and then the fight with Saul, "I'm a big crybaby who won't cook meth!" The show has really been doing a good job of building up how powerless Walt feels without getting to play at being Heisenberg. Not to justify his freak out to Jesse at all, buuut I can kind of understand where it came from after just finding out that his wife was sleeping with another man, AND just getting fired, it couldn't have helped to then see his protege taking over the drug business without him... Especially with his belief of what happened before with Elliot making millions off of Walt's research. Not that that excuses it at all though, poor Jesse he was so proud and excited to show Walt his meth :P
With both Elliot and Jesse it seems that Walt himself wanted to leave the business and wasn't forced out (that's my impression of the Ellion and Gretchen backstory so far at least), but then considered it the worst kind of betrayal for his former partners to decide to go it alone and "steal" his work. But if they've put their own hard work and investment into the business then it shouldn't just be down to Walt alone to decide that everything shuts up shop without him, and Jesse did offer him half the profits, just as we will later found out that Elliot brought out Walt's share in Gray Matter with what everyone considered a fair price at the time. Elliot didn't even seem aware of any friction at his birthday party or that they had parted on bad terms, which suggests that it was only when Elliot made a huge success of the company that Walt started brooding to himself about how all of the research was stolen from his own ideas. And honestly Gray Matter would never have been the success that it was if Walt were running it, he's so obsessed with his own ego and wanting to receive sole credit for any success. In some ways maybe being a high school teacher was the right career for him as it gives him the chance to lord it over slacker students like Jesse and belittle them, something that wouldn't work out nearly so well for him in a professional place of business
"Mas" gets us back to what we've all been waiting for all season with Walt back to cooking! After how pathetic he's been in the first four episodes you can really see how much he relishes putting Jesse in his place with warnings not to even think about cooking HIS formula again (no Elliot issues there!). Plus having Saul back working for him under Walt's terms of 5%, lol at Saul trying desperately to bargain with Walt, "Any lower than ten and I can't respect myself...Five!" Gus played Walt beautifully by getting that it wasn't just about the money for Walt, it was about the pride he takes in being the man and "the man provides". Love the music playing as Walt checks out his swanky new lab :)
And this is a bit of a ramble, but I like how Walt clearly sees himself and Gus as similar because they're both "professionals", even though they're almost exact opposites with Gus only caring about the money and being happy to stay under the radar and just pass himself off as someone who works in fastfood. The total opposite of how angry Walt was last season when Saul offered good alternative suggestions of how his family could get the money without knowing who was behind it. If anything, much as he despised him, Walt is way more like Tuco with his need to be flashy and have power behind the Heisenberg name.
I know those gifs are from season 5, but I couldn't resist using them! Anyways, end ramble :P
And taking a break from the Walt/Skyler marriage drama really helps pick up the pace in 'Sunset' with an almost unbearably tense sequence as Hank waits outside the RV while Walt and Jesse hide inside. And even after his bonding with Gale, Walt still seems sad to see the RV being torn apart. Aww at his sad little glance at Jesse (who looks totally devastated!) Walt was kind of dense though not to pick up on how overqualified Gale was as a lab assistant and how he was clearly training his replacement...I guess that he really does view himself as irreplaceable!
Gus's final speech with the cousins was kind of annoying just because I don't speak Spanish! I could pick up the gist of it when Gus mentioned Hank's name, but really could have done with some subtitles there
I really liked how "One Minute" dealt with Hank wrestling with his conscience and how he insisted on telling on telling the truth on what happened with beating up Jesse. Dean Norris really deserves at least one emmy nod for BB! The moment of Hank crying in Marie's arms is one of my favourites, Marie's support of Hank was so touching in this episode when he talks to her about how he's been unraveling for a while and it wouldn't be right to try and lie and cover up the beating. Hmm actually I did think Jesse's speech about how he would ruin Hank's life went on a bit too long and was kind of OT though, although I suppose it got across the point effectively enough at just how angry he was. It just felt too obviously scripted and overwritten to me I guess. I liked the contrast with Jesse blaming Hank and Walt for his misery and looking for revenge, while Hank is totally ready to take responsibility for his actions and even willing to risk losing his career rather than cover up what he did
And well does it even need saying how intense that final minute was with Hank waiting for the cousins to appear!!! Opening up to Marie about how badly he's been coping with the panic attacks actually seemed to help Hank as he dealt with the Cousin's pretty well and didn't have another panic attack like you might have expected.
And this is probably a very unpopular opinion but, while Jesse's speech to Walt is heartbreaking and brilliantly-acted, I think I've just seen that speech used one too many times in YT video's with people taking it at face value. And just no. Yes we the viewer are all too aware of how Walt left Jane to die, but as far as Jesse is aware Jane died because they were both using drugs and she OD'd from it (if anything Walt was the one to express concern about them doing heroin and warning Jesse off it...), and then Jesse lost contact with his parents because of one too many failed trips to rehab causing them to give up on him. Well that and the house deal-breaker. So I don't agree with Jesse blaming losing everything and everyone in his life on "ever since I teamed up with the great heisenberg". I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, I suppose I just see this speech as a good example of how much of the audience then started seeing Jesse as this lost and hurting little kid whose life was ruined because of Walt, but I just don't think it's as simple as that
If anything I thought the speech was more about expressing Jesse's hurt at Walt cutting him out of the business in the way that he did, it was really being told that his cook was garbage that he was lashing out at Walt for. Which granted was a shitty thing to do no question, but at the same time that doesn't equal being responsible for all of the misery in Jesse's life IMO and Jesse losing his family. I'm not saying that it wasn't moving though seeing how much pain Jesse was in, and I liked how Walt had nothing to say in response except to finally give Jesse the approval he was asking for, it was as close as we've ever seen him come to a real apology with Jesse. Even if he doesn't always like Jesse all that much, it's clear that he is still emotionally invested in Jesse's well-being
It was kind of a cool parallel I thought with Jesse being so angry at Walt because of being disrespected and told that his meth was garbage, just as Walt previously flew off the handle because of perceiving Jesse as disrespecting him and stealing his formula. A lot of comments get made about Walt's need for respect and validation from his family and the people around him, but in "One Minute" Jesse is just as desperate to hear a good job from his sort of mentor Walt, and was so hurt at his previous dismissal that he threated to use Walt as his free pass with the DEA. The difference between the two of them being of course that by season 5 Jesse has grown a lot and really gets that being able to cook meth well is nothing to be proud of, while Walt gets ever more deluded with his belief that building a meth empire will be his way of making up for being cut out of Gray Matter
And Walt attempting to discredit Gale was obviously because he needed Jesse back working with him, but there was also a suggestion that he wasn't thrilled at how well Gale had everything running without him. I don't think it was about finally waking up to Gale being a possible threat of replacing him one day though, but more about Walt always needing to be the smartest person in the room. Walt might have first thought that Gale was the ideal partner for him as he was more of an equal than Jesse ever was, but there is definitely a part of Walt that needs to feel indispensable after the indignity of seeing Gray Matter thrive without him
Tags:
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 07:32 pm (UTC)That's something I never thought about before--that he must have spent time looking up all those other crashes.
How lame having to bleep out the 'fuck' on the DVD though
Say huh? Is that a Region thing?
but it seems like she just expects Walt Junior to understand why she threw his cancer-striken father out, never bothered with ANY explanation, and is then hurt when he takes his father's side?
Yeah. She came up with lies for everything else (gambling, car wash, etc). So I don't know why either one of them expected that telling Walt Jr. NOTHING was going to make the situation better. Because yeah, as far as he can see, his mom is mad at his dad for no reason.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 07:48 pm (UTC)My DVDs had the 'fuck' for the Gretchen scene in season 2 and in the pilot, it was just that scene that had the word bleeped out for some reason
And yeah Skyler acted completely powerless against Walt in those episodes, but you'd think she could have come up with something as she was the one who had power in Walt needing her to come up with a good cover story for why she really threw him out. Instead she just decides to give no explanation at all and say that it's not Hank or Marie's business when they ask. She didn't want her son to find out about the meth and hate his father fair enough, but surely hating his mother and calling her a bitch wasn't any better either, so at least make up a story of an affair or something
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 08:24 pm (UTC)According to the commentaries they get one f-word a season, but I think they're all there on the DVD. I mean Walt spits out motherfucker in Fly, so... I don't know? S4 definitely has more than one f-word.
Maybe it was some kind of style thing. Yeah, doesn't make sense either.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 08:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 08:47 pm (UTC)Yeah, he blurts it out when Jesse hits him with the Fly Saber.
It's not bleeped in Bug in S4. Neither is Huelle's 'this motherfucker don't do what he's told'. So yeah, I really don't know why they'd bleep it out in IFT. Even if they bleep it during the TV airing, it should be on the DVD. That's why they choose to have the curse word and bleep it; so it *can* then be on the DVD uncensored.
They must have chose to do it like that for some reason.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 08:51 pm (UTC)Err... Just checked my disc and it's not bleeped in IFT either on my version.
So, I don't know if it's a region thing or what, but...
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 09:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 10:47 pm (UTC)Think of it as payback for y'all getting the better aspect for Buffy 4-7. :P
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 09:25 pm (UTC)Jesse's speech rather is like an angst-ridden teenager blaming their parents for all their problems because they didn't ask to be born. Jesse could still be bitter that Walt initially forced him into their partnership, threatening to turn Jesse into the police if he refused. No, Jesse can't blame Walt for Jane's death based on what little Jesse knows. That said, I think there were a few things that were Walt's fault - namely their whole ordeal with Tuco, Jesse's experience at the Spooges house and Combo's murder after Walt insisted on expanding the territory. All those incidents were examples of Walt bullying Jesse into things he didn't want to do. There are a fair number of times that Jesse has trusted in Walt's judgement and suffered for it. At the moment Jesse makes this speech, he is smarting from a beating he received as a consequence of Walt's plan to lure away Hank. I can see why Jesse has come to see Mr White as a curse on his life. In the few short months Jesse has been with Walt he's been through several traumatic ordeals and near-death experiences. But in spite of all that, I don't think Jesse was really demanding Walt stay out of his life. Jesse's speech felt more of a broken cry for help. It felt like Jesse was begging Walt to make him feel wanted again. Jesse was ranting about having lost everything that he ever cared about and I think his partnership with Walt was one of those painful losses.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 09:48 pm (UTC)Honestly though it was really the 'everything I have ever cared about is gone. I have nothing, no one. Ever since I teamed up with the great Heisenberg' which I thought was too strong a sentiment I guess! Jesse seemed like he was mostly hurting over losing Jane in this early season 3 period and, from his knowledge, that had nothing to do with Walt. Yet I've seen sooo many videos using that as a voice-over with it seeming to be treated as some kind of universal truth that Walt has caused Jesse to lose everything and was responsible for all the bad choices in jesse's life, but with Jane and his family I'm not sure how big a difference it would have made if Walt wasn't around frankly. Jesse's family already seemed pretty done with him when he came to their door in 104, and well Jane's plan for them to run off to New Zealand with thousands of dollars didn't seem like it had a great life expectancy for either of them
But yeah I agree that Jesse's speech was more about lashing out from hurt at being cut out of the partnership. I think that Walt knew that too and felt genuinely bad, it was when Jesse reached the end of the monologue and started breaking down over his meth being called garbage that Walt seemed to know to respond to that and say that Jesse's was every bit as good as his
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 10:46 pm (UTC)See, I'm not even sure I feel Walt is solely to blame for Tuco, either. Initially, yeah, Walt blackmails him. But Jesse is the one to come to him after that and at the end of Grey Matter, Walt asks him if he wants to cook again.
Walt does push him later, but you know? Jesse is still capable of making the choice not to. He has no trouble laying down the law after they team up again. Walt's flaw is his ego; Jesse's is his need to please his surrogate father figure. That's why Walt dissing his meth bothered him so much.
So yeah, I don't think it's fair that Jesse lays it all on him, but it's a very realistic response just as Mike laying all the problems in S5 is. None of them are reliable narrators.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 11:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 11:26 pm (UTC)Oh, I definitely get you. It's true in a lot of fandoms.
And yeah. As if Walt was completely over paranoid about Gus's plans when Gus was planning to kill him.
Of course, if you point that out you get labeled as a Walt!Apologist.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-05 11:41 pm (UTC)The arrangement with Gus might have been a win for Mike, but not really for Walt who was going to be replaced when his three months were up, and not really for Jesse when Walt went against Gus and killed the dealers to save Jesse's life after Jesse was protesting at little kids being used as dealers. Yet there is such cheering in fandom when it's Mike being protective of Jesse and saying that Jesse has loyalty to the wrong guy and that it was Walt who screwed up everything with Gus. Even Jonathan Banks seems sincerely attached to Mike being a good guy and loving his granddaughter etc and has very firm views on Walt being a sociopath, but it's not like his characters loyalty to a man like Gus was particularly praiseworthy either, there just seems to be such a double standard with that hitman with a secret heart of gold type character
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 12:11 am (UTC)It happens quite a bit. Protagonist privilege gets all the talk in meta analysis, but from my experience in fandoms with bad guy/anti-hero main characters? It's kind of the opposite.
Yeah, I liked Mike (as in I found him interesting) but he was anything but a hero. Dude was going to kill Lydia in her own house with her daughter around.
Meh. Fandoms can be fun, but they can also ruin shows, I think.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 07:48 am (UTC)This is a difficult issue for me. I mean, if someone is in an abusive relationship do we say it's the victim's fault because they have chosen to stay with their abuser? In 3x7 Jesse agrees to be partners again after angrily accusing Walt of using him and ruining his life. Yes, Jesse could have just left his partnership with Walt long ago (Walt's old blackmail threat was useless since Jesse could've just as easily turned Walt into the police at that point) But leaving abusers is always easier said that done. In just the first three episodes Jesse goes through a traumatic ordeal with Walt and as Jesse says "we can't talk about it to anyone else". Jesse's need for a companion and a surrogate parent is always so exposed that we can see Walt taking advantage and playing on Jesse's vulnerabilities.
You'll probably object to me using terms like 'abuser' and 'victim' to describe Walt and Jesse's relationship throughout the whole show. I guess my view of past seasons is now colored by things like the Brock poisoning in S4 which was an undeniable act of emotional manipulation and gaslighting by Walt. Because we know that Walt will become very abusive and controlling of Jesse in later seasons, I think it gets fans questioning if Jesse was always Walt's victim. Certainly I think Walt was always a bully. Since Walt was in the teacher/father role there was always that power imbalance. Even in the beginning, Walt would insult Jesse constantly, breaking down his self-esteem, and making Jesse crave any tiny crumbs of Walt's approval he could get.
I agree that Jesse is far from innocent but since Walt intentionally took charge of Jesse's life I think he should feel some responsibility for the kid. S3 is the only time Walt does leave Jesse to his own devises but by that point it seems Jesse is too broken and codependent to cope on his own. We can argue that Jesse made his own choices, that Jesse is an adult but - is he really? Despite being in his mid 20s Jesse still has the mentality of an adolescent. And Walt keeps Jesse in that childlike state by continuing to treat him like a failing school boy, something Jesse submits to since he never stops calling him 'Mr White'.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 06:44 am (UTC)If Walt hadn't come into Jesse's life, then Jesse would either be in jail or he'd be on the run. Crazy 8 was a police snitch who had given 'Captain Cook' up to the DEA. Without Walt, Jesse might have even been killed by Emilio since Crazy 8 had convinced Emilio that Jesse was the snitch. For all the negative impact Walt had on Jesse's life, Walt also acted as Jesse's protector at a time when Jesse really needed one.
About Jesse's parents. I think they were still open to reconciliation until they found the meth lab in the basement. While Jesse was cooking meth long before he met Walt, Jesse was never cooked at his own house until (again) Walt pressured him into it. So I guess what I'm saying is - I can see how Jesse would blame Walt for things like this, even if it wasn't all Walt's fault. But like you say, Jesse is an unreliable narrator lashing out.
I guess I'm just defending the speech itself because even though fans may have misappropriated it, I think it is a great moment in the show and for me, once the monologue shifts to Jesse's hurt over Walt's rejection we see (like Walt sees) that Jesse just wants Walt to care about him. He's devastated because he thinks Walt used him and discarded him, leaving his life in tatters. And even the early part of the speech is clever because it plays on Walt's guilt over Jane, even if Jesse has no idea how much Walt is responsible.
Also I totally share your feelings on Mike's speech in S5. So much so.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 11:35 am (UTC)And I'm not sure how much his parents cutting him off even bothered Jesse frankly because it was something he seemed used too and accepting off when they thought the joint was his and threw him out in early season 1, it wasn't broken beyond repair then but you certainly got the sense that none of the family could envision a period where things would ever change for them with Jesse. Of course I'm not saying that it didn't affect him in some ways too that his parents didn't give him another chance, but it was really losing Jane that made him so much quieter and sadder during this period. By the time of The Fly he's able to admit that it's nobody's fault (to forget what we know of Walt's role for a moment :P ) and is quietly accepting that they would have OD'd with the way that they were going anyway. Yet that speech never gets brought up much for some reason, even though that's an important moment of growth for Jesse, but fandom seems to prefer to stagnate him in the role of hurting little kid whose mentor figure is so mean to him and responsible for all the losses in his life
And I will have plenty more to say about Mike when I get to season 5 ;) Around that period so many people started wanting him to be Jesse's surrogate father instead of Walt, and I'm not sure how that would even work when Mike just wants out of the business and has no interest in the kind of co-dependent relationship that Walt and Jesse had. He might have looked out for Jesse a few times, but there was never the slightest suggestion that he wanted to start plying father figure to Jesse lol, he wanted out of the business and out of town with them all going their separate ways
ETA Oh and I thought that Walt really responded to Jesse's speech because of the truth in it when Jesse started off by saying that he's turning down Walt because he doesn't give a shit about Jesse, all he cares about is what he wants. Cause, while I do think that Walt cares about Jesse obviously, he knew that there was a LOT of truth in that from his recent treatment of the kid and that was something that Walt really needed to hear. IMO the rest of the speech shouldn't be seen as Jesse blaming Walt for all the losses in his life and being right to do so, but more Jesse saying that he has nothing else in his life BUT the partnership with Walt that he got so cruelly cut out from. Just as Walt tries telling him not to start dealing again earlier in the season and Jesse asks what else is he good at in life
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-06 02:46 pm (UTC)Well, people who are grieving are often not at all rational or very pleasant to be around. They can wallow in depression and they can take their frustrations out on others. Jesse is not a stranger to grief. I imagine Jesse took his aunt's death very hard since she seemed to be the one adult person in his family who accepted Jesse. I think Jesse already had some abandonment issues. The deaths of both Jane and Combo were likely more devastating to Jesse because he felt guilt over them as well as loss. It used to be Jesse's habit to numb his pain with drugs but since he's clean, the only other way he can get over his guilt is accepting he's a bad person. It's not a healthy mindset and it only brings out the worst in Jesse. But Jesse didn't have any other guidance in how to deal with his pain.
As for Mike, well...I like the Jesse & Mike relationship but I do feel like people forget how (for a long time) Mike was the one saying "Why haven't we killed that junkie yet?" Walt's whole reason for messing up the 'good thing' they had with Gus was that Walt wouldn't let Gus and Mike kill Jesse. Mike may have become fond of Jesse in later seasons but he had no interest in adopting Jesse and Jesse isn't capable of being the hardened loner that Mike advised him to be. I was also wondering what Mike would have done if Gus had succeeded in killing Walt in 'Face Off'. If Mike came back from Mexico and found that Gus had Jesse locked in the superlab cooking meth at gunpoint - would Mike have done anything to save Jesse? I don't think so. In his twisted fucked up way Walt still cares about Jesse a lot more than Mike ever did.