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Scott Allies from Slayalive:

http://slayalive.com/index.cgi?board=buffyseason8&action=display&thread=8133&page=2

11. Nicholas: What exactly do you think of the whole Angel and Spike thing in Always Darkest, considering all the gay undertones this season had had?

"Scott Allie: I think this is Joss's gift to a certain segment of the fandom. I laughed my ass off when I read the script, and the art just made it better. And the funniest thing about it, for me, is how it messes with Buffy's narcissism."

Umm GTFO thank you. This from the person writing the comics no less. Now I know I'll never buy them

Current Mood: annoyed

Tags:

buffy

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o.O I've never thought of Buffy as narcissistic. Cordy yes but not Buff.

The way he is so flippant about the main character is really aggravating when she's supposed to be the POV character that the writer and audience connect with the most

And his comments (and Joss's) on how LOL funny male homosexuality is don't exactly impress me either...

The season 8 comics have zero respect for Buffy. They've really screwed up the character. But without SMG it's not really Buffy

Be proud of yourself for avoiding these stupid comics. Too many Buffy fans haven't the smarts to recognize that these comics are shit and have accepted them. A number of my LJ friends (you included) are of the smarter section of Buffy fandom who have rejected the comics. There's a lot of stupid shit in the comics that they probably wouldn't try to pull in the tv series. But Joss was destroying the Buffyverse onscreen before the shows went off air and this is a continuation of that.

I think some people are so desperate for more Buffy that they'll accept any shit that's official and is called Buffy, even if it's total shit and is not the real thing. It's a sad state of affairs. I'm quite happy with the Buffyverse being done. I don't need more Buffy. I want Joss to leave the poor Buffyverse alone and stop fucking with it.

What happened in Always Darkest? In fact, what is Always Darkest? I haven't been keeping up with the comics recently.

Ok, I know what Always Darkest is now.

http://www.darkhorse.com/Features/eComics/1087/Dark-Horse-Presents-No-24?part_num=1&page=2

The pages load bloody slow, but that seems to be it.

What did Joss and Allie say re male homosexuality?

I think Joss likes sticking it to Buffy. I don't think he likes her much. I think if he thought a Willow and Xander comic would sell as well he'd make "Season 8" that instead of a Buffy comic. Willow's been made way too powerful in the comic, overshadowing Buffy, casually waving around massive magic like she usually didn't do in the show. She's been made morally superior to Buffy. She's been made Dawn's mother figure. And she blames Buffy for Tara's death. She's also been made a crucial character for the Fray era. You'd think Buffy would move past Willow and Xander by now. Bloody groupies. Meanwhile, Dawn is being punished for having sex and oh it's so funny. Yeah, big lol. Somehow Warren isn't really dead (despite the First Evil using him as a form, meaning he was dead), because Joss, uh, forgot that he was used by the FE. Also, B/A is clearly favored. I could keep ranting, but that should give you some idea.

I posted an LJ entry in my LJ leading to this one, so some of my other LJ friends can read about this stuff. Hope you don't mind.

Oh feel free, I can tell it's an issue you feel strongly about too ;)

Dawn had sex? o_0

And if Willow and the magic have been made more powerful than Buffy than it sounds like the comics have done exactly what the show deliberately tried to avoid doing...

Page 3 really pissed me off

All the "What about me" and "I'm the love of your lives!" sounded exactly how a hater of Buffy would write their fan fic to make fun of her, not a serious and supposedly official continuation of the show

ETA The drawings were nice though...

Edited Date: 2009-07-05 03:18 am (UTC)

Oh ow, I feel your pain. Well, sort of... A writer (Stephen Moffat) once called Rose clingy, and while I'm not a big Rose fan (I'm trying!) I got so aggravated at reading that. Whatever happened to writers having pride in, and respect for, the characters they help mould?

That comment annoyed me too, yeah that relationship got kind of co-dependent, but as if Rose was any worse than the Doctor. Obviously it's only the girl that gets called out as clingy *eyeroll* It's so sexist too because you'd never hear a male writer say discussing the Ninth Doctor being "clingy" in WW3 when he told Rose he wasn't going to dinner with her family, we either leave now, or you stay behind. Or when he was obsessed with what a pretty boy Adam was.

But when it comes to the female it's all gosh how needy Rose was. Compared to the Doctor and all his issues? Not especially

Agreed. But SM's kind of known for his misogynistic comments. *sad sigh* It's too bad, I enjoyed TEC/TDD, and flip-flop over TGitF (mostly leaning to "like", but still dislike some of the characterizations). Damn.

I stopped reading the S8 comics waaay back. Haven't picked up the Angel comics yet, either. The last few seasons of both shows kind of killed my trust in TPTB.

I never even picked them up, but just reading that link frustrated me *g*

I'm completely uninterested in the comics, no matter how many times Whedon squeals, "They're canon! They're canon! Becuz I says so and I'm the boss!" *throws tantrum*

No SMG/JM/DB/Etc, not canon. Thank you.

I confess, I did find the Spike/Angel stuff funny though, sorry. ;)

This BS about Buffy though... it boggles. I mean... she's the frakkin HEROINE. She's the ENTRY POINT into the entire universe, and JossCo. seem to hate her. WTF?

Screw them.

No I liked the drawings of Spangel and it could be a cute shout-out, if not for the writing of Buffy around it. I've heard that Buffy haters have been laughing about her getting what was coming to her, how she messed Spike and Angel around, and that's kind of who it seems to be aimed at? And that's just a horrible way to look at it when Buffy is supposed to be the focal point and the girl you root for

I have to say, I'm glad not to be much involved with those kind of folks these days. I love my Buffy, warts and all. And so do the guys she messed around. So there. ;)

["No SMG/JM/DB/Etc, not canon. Thank you."]

Hear hear.

Solidarity! It was the actors who brought the whole thing to life. Whedon was only *part* of the equation.

["Solidarity! It was the actors who brought the whole thing to life. Whedon was only *part* of the equation."]

Indeed. Though some people would want to burn us on the stake for that view. Joss isn't everything, there's more to BTVS than his input. The actors are so important to making it what it was, particularly SMG.

So much of what a screen character is is determined by how an actor plays them. The same character with a different actor is a different character. And the same character on a comic book page isn't the same character. All the more so with Buffy and Spike, characters who are so dependent on the excellent performances from the actors.

To say you can have real BTVS without SMG is kind of an insult to her and what she accomplished onscreen in the show. SMG is at least as essential to BTVS as Joss.

I agree completely -- the embodiment of these characters is the life given to them by the actors. You'll notice, even in the comics, that the characters STILL wear the faces of the actors from the shows. After all, why would people bother caring about characters they weren't familiar with?

And that familiarity, that backstory, the love and devotion? Is because of the actors. I was always kind of annoyed with the whole comic business because it seems a way for Whedon to keep collecting the golden eggs without having to deal with any of the geese. Shitty, if you ask me.

I do not, and have never belonged to the cult of Joss. Can he spin a great yarn? Hell yeah. Does that mean he's god and everything he touches is beautiful and wondrous to its core? No. Does that mean he is a special wonderful fabulous human being worthy of worship? No. Personally, I think he's kind of a pretentious jerk. ;)

The comics are just spinoff merchandise drawing on the feeling the fans have for the actors' performances. Even now, the actors are indirectly contributing that way, but it's not likely they'll get any credit. But some people can get quite nasty if you challenge the notion that these stupid comics are canon.

As for actor resemblences in the comics, it's there, but I wish it was there more. Apparently Joss told the artist to draw Buffy rather than drawing SMG. Wtf? Buffy looks like SMG! It sounds to me like more putting down SMG. Meanwhile, that artist (Georges Jeanty) draws them all looking like kids (even in sex scenes) with bland facial expressions.

["I was always kind of annoyed with the whole comic business because it seems a way for Whedon to keep collecting the golden eggs without having to deal with any of the geese."]

Looks like that to me too.

["I do not, and have never belonged to the cult of Joss."]

Me neither. Of course he has considerable talent and played a crucial part in BTVS, but he's no god and BTVS isn't just him and nor is everything he does great. I share your unflattering view of him.

Also, re the canonicity issue, I don't think even Joss really believes they're canon, however much he may want them to be. He came out with remarks at the Paley panel that I think gave away that he doesn't really feel they're solid canon, even if he may want us to believe he does. He said that he'd be prepared to get rid of the "Season 8" story if necessary to make way for Buffy movie if he was making one. See here: http://sum1-different.livejournal.com/112411.html

Also, David Fury has said he doesn't the comics as canon even if Joss does. Here: http://sum1-different.livejournal.com/123769.html

It's a sales ploy, I'm sure.

Also, I have to say for all that he can be really abrasive, David Fury is one of the few people in the writing and production staff that I respect. He says what he means, whether Joss or anyone else likes it or not.

["It's a sales ploy, I'm sure."]

It looks like that to me. But also "It's my universe so I can do what I want with it!" Joss puts me in mind of George Lucas and what's been done to Star Wars.

Oy! Don't even get me started about Lucas. I pitched a complete geek fit when I bought the "improved" original trilogy. I mean, fine, the changes themselves don't bother me, but I wanted the movies I saw when I was a kid -- as they were when I was a kid! I think he should have provided me with the "unfixed" ones for no charge when they finally came out! (Not that I'm an over-entitled American brat geek or anything. *G*)

*glares* Lucas. WHEDON! *shakes fists*

She's the ENTRY POINT into the entire universe, and JossCo. seem to hate her. WTF?

You know, they really do. Even going back before the comics Joss made some comments that struck me as weird concerning Buffy. He and the rest of them really come off as if they've grown resentful of the character and hate that she has to be included in their story. It's pretty much the same thing you see in fic.

I always had a sneaking suspicion, and I have no proof whatsoever of this, that in latter years, SMG and Joss were not on good terms (understatement). That seems to have bled over into the character, which is... well, it's pretty damn childish, if you ask me. I thought it was a fandom thing to confuse actor and character.

Heh. I have issues with Mr. Whedon. ;)

David Fury said something a number of years back that Joss felt SMG didn't give him enough credit and that SMG felt Joss didn't give her enough credit, or something like that. Also I think I once read that Joss said that later seasons writing of the character of Buffy was based on SMG, which sounds to me like an insult, because Buffy was negatively portrayed in later years.

You're not the only one who has issues with Whedon. :)

We should have a club, with like, badges and stuff. Love the shows, dislike the creator? ;)

lol

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