(no subject)

[frelling_tralk]

Okay, maybe it really is better to go into an episode unspoiled. Because DW was one of the most exciting tv experiences that I've had in a while.

Jack needs to just stay away from TW, and never leave DW! How fantastic would season 3 be with a change in the dynamics of Doctor/female, but just a Tardis team of three having fun together. (Dropping the unrequited love angle for Martha, please). There's just something about Jack being around the Doctor, it really brings out his fun and flirty side. I would say he was better in this episode than in the whole 13 episode run of TW, but then he was pretty wonderful in the Captain Jack Harkness episode as well. Hmm, maybe he just needs to be around people that he blatantly fancies, and less of surly miserable Owen? I'm not sure lol

Every moment the Doctor and Jack shared on screen was just perfection in chemistry. Jack hugging the Doctor after finding out Rose was alive! And the blonde comments, with Jack and Martha's identical expressions *giggles madly* The Doctor telling Jack don't you dare shoot!

“Oh. My. God. You’ve got a hand. A hand in a jar. Hand. In a jar. In your bag.” And the Doctor being all hey, "That's my hand!"

"Hermits United. We meet up every ten years and swap stories about caves. It's good fun. For a hermit"

And that conversation through the door was just fantastic. Especially the way the Doctor leaned in and said Jack. The Doctor never exactly bonded with the other Timelords anyway, he was always closest to his travelling companions. Rose originally helped him get over the trauma of the Time War, and I wish that he could get over his issues with Jack being wrong, and welcome him abroad the Tardis properly. Those two really seemed to understand one another in the moment when discussing how fantastic it is to see the humans surviving


When the professor started crying at hearing those old voices echoing in his head, that was so great! I almost passed out at the "You Are Not Alone"/Yana connection. And his assistant was sweet. It was so sad when she was trying to stop him "destroying all our work" and her hand was shaking, and he was saying now he can say he was provoked. Ouch. And "Why don't we stop and have a nice little chat, and then you can work out a way to stop me". Squeee! And the "Use my name". "Master" is the point at which I which I passed out


And how brilliant was the trailer for next week!!! Making fun of Tony Blair is always a wonderful thing. And what with, "What this country really needs right now, is a Doctor", oh yeah! This is pretty much going to be the greatest two episodes to end a season ever :D :D :D Cannot wait to see the Doctor and Master interacting properly *dances*


The plotting wasn't as impressive as the character work though. Just comparing it to End Of The World where Cassandra was the last human, and it was all aliens, it makes me wonder if I'm missing something. Going to the end of the universe, and humans with er pointy teeth are what we should be frightened off? That part was a bit lame.

People saying that the Rose mentions were gratuitous, umm what? So Jack shouldn't have even asked where Rose was??? Even though he bonded with the Doctor and Rose so much in his time on DW, and his final scene with them was kissing them both goodbye. They should have totally thrown away the continuity there? Okay then. I loved the flashback to Bad Wolf Rose anyway, and Jack's mention of watching Rose grow up. I could just picture that in my head, and so totally adorable.

Comments

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

If it wasn't for stupid TW, we could have had Jack for a companion with Ten and Rose last year, and it might have made the two of them less annoying together *pouts*

It wouldn't be so bad to lose Jack on DW, if TW was actually a good show, but it's so mediocre that it's really not worth losing Doctor/Jack on screen together

[fahrbotdrusilla]

I couldn't agree with you more.

[kittyfisher.livejournal.com]

love love love your icon!

[sum1-different.livejournal.com]

["Making fun of Tony Blair is always a wonderful thing."]

I can't say I agree.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I just have..issues with him...

[sum1-different.livejournal.com]

I gathered that. ;)

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

I don't think that people were so much having a problem with mentions of Rose in this episode so much as the fact that repeated references to her in previous episodes sorta killed the impact. At least that was what I felt. I want Rusty to shut up about Rose, and that's his own fault for belaboring the point.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I'm in the minority in fandom in not finding the Rose references that gratuitous (except in The Shakespeare Code where it was badly handled). I'd have actually been annoyed if Rose hadn't have been brought up this year. I could understand if people would find it too much during season 4, but Rose did only just leave last season, so I think it was the right choice to play the Doctor as emotionally shattered over it for this season

And really the only references lately (from what I remember anyway) have been things like Rose being brought up during the Doctor/Jack reunion, or her sketch being included alongside other memories of the Doctor's in A Human Nature. Which fair enough IMO. And it does feel appropriate to me to still give the Doctor those emo moments like "Her name was Rose".

Where I personally find that Rose's shadow does loom too largely over the season, is with Martha's unrequited love for the Doctor, and comparing herself to Rose all the time. But that's a thing they're doing to Martha, that bugs me separately from the Doctor's own references to Rose. If that makes sense *g* That's sort of why I wish that Jack could join the Tardis full-time, and it could change to more of a friendship group of three. Because it's a bit depressing sometimes to watch Martha desperately comparing herself to Rose, and wanting to recrate that dynamic (and some of the retreads, like in 42 with giving Martha the Tardis key, I could do without).

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

My problem with the mentions of Rose is that it's overkill. The Doctor pretty much never brings up former companions, so one or two references would have been a big deal and a fitting tribute. (Plus in episodes where it was necessary, like this one, it would not have been annoying.) This, however, borders on deification. As is the tendency with Rusty, he errs on the side of too much. Another problem with this is the fact that because he's gone and given Martha this unrequited crush, one can understand her frustration at the repeated references. And that is really not fair to Rose.

[kittyfisher.livejournal.com]

"Use my name". "Master" is the point at which I which I passed out...

Me too!

And TW needs to focus on Jack, not the others - none of whom I like very much, dammit!

[kittyfisher.livejournal.com]

And now we just have to wait...

For Torchwood, Xmas Special Who and IF JACK COME BACK in season 4!!!

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

The Gwen and Owen show I could certainly do without, I don't mind Ianto and Tosh so much. But none of them seem to bring out Jack's fun side as much as the Doctor do they? And you get the arguments that Jack's personality in DW was never as real, but just a flashy cover-up for his issues. Yet this episode certainly showed that Jack and the Doctor could be themselves around one another, a hell of a lot better than he could around the TW crew. And with the Doctor, Jack actually remembered how to have fun again. And to strip! *g*

[nel-ani.livejournal.com]

And that conversation through the door was just fantastic. Especially the way the Doctor leaned in and said Jack.

*points* Yes, *exactly*.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

*points at icon*

[nel-ani.livejournal.com]

Oh, siiiiiiigh.

[duskwillow.livejournal.com]

Oh I love being unspoiled!
I'm squeeing so much this season! lol

Aw, no love for TW Jack. I actually prefer that version, because I find him to be more complex character. He's a bit more two-dimensional on Who. I think he'll be a bit more flirty next season on TW as well. It's understandable he was so broody, he was stuck in Cardiff for almost 150 years waiting for the Doctor to finally show up. I think that would suck the fun out of everyone. :)

But I looooooooved Doctor/Jack and Jack/Martha and Jack/everyone else he saw and flirted with interactions. He was having so much fun! \o/

“Oh. My. God. You’ve got a hand. A hand in a jar. Hand. In a jar. In your bag.”
lmao
Funniest moment in the episode

YANA reveal was fantastic! I didn't see it coming at all.
Two Masters for the price of one! *dies a bit*

As for Rose mentions, I loved them in this episode! How cute is it that Jack went to watch over her growing up? :D
But they are over-killing it a bit this season for me, I agree with what bubonicplague said ^^^. And to me this is starting to look a bit like Clark mopping all the time over Lana, and that is not a good thing.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Oh I love being unspoiled!

Me too! And I could never go unspoiled in Buffy or SV fandom because of the fun of the spoiler chats *g* But with DW, I don't really get involved in that part of the fandom much, so I find it quite easy to just decide I may as well go unspoiled then. And it's really paid off this season. I was probably the only one who squeed at Gridlock's final message, as opposed to being "Er we already figured that out". Lol


I actually wondered then if it was the Master, but feared they would never do anything so cool. Fear not *g* Actually someone on my flist spoiled me for the Master's return shortly after that (boo), and I then had a vague idea that Sexon references were connected to him, (and was quietly impressed, compared to how TW mentions were handled in season 2), but it was still really surprising seeing how it all happened! I love rewatching a really coherant story arc, so looking forward to buying those DVDs!


Aw, no love for TW Jack. I actually prefer that version, because I find him to be more complex character. He's a bit more two-dimensional on Who.

I didn't feel that we got enough of Jack in TW to even find him interesting. From the first episode, with the focus on Gwen, Jack come across to me more as the shadowy boss figure lurking in the background that the audience wasn't meant to understand. Just know that he has "issues". The show felt more concerned with exploring Gwen and Owen, which is partly why I was disappointed with TW. I mean even with the Jack/Ianto thing, it was tough to get a clue of how Jack actually felt about Ianto, and Jack was supposedly the main character! It was quite a contrast to the time spend on Gwen/Rhys and her contemplating an affair with Owen.

And to me this is starting to look a bit like Clark mopping all the time over Lana, and that is not a good thing.

But it's only been like 9 episodes or so since Rose left. I think it's completely different from how Clark still cannot get over Lana after six seasons, and when she's with another man as well! Rose and Ten's separation in Doomsday was pretty heartbreaking for them after all. SR and GITF change of attitude to Mickey frustrated me far more at the time lol. It actually feels like there's a decent script runner (or whatever they're called) looking over the scripts this year, and making sure that emotional continuity tracks.

[duskwillow.livejournal.com]

And I could never go unspoiled in Buffy or SV fandom because of the fun of the spoiler chats *g*
Well there's that, but I also don't trust the writers there. I can't even imagine how it was watching Seeing Red unspoiled. And well, if they're gonna pull the rug from under my feet like they did in Promise, and mess the show up, I want to be prepared. lol

With Doctor Who I just feel like I can trust them to entertain me, and that they'll do their best to write a good episode, and follow story continuity.

I actually wondered then if it was the Master, but feared they would never do anything so cool. Fear not *g*
I actually had no idea who the Master was until I got spoiled (and by an interview with Simm in some magazine no less!! Seriously, keep the casting spoilers out of the interview title dammit! lol) so I asked around. And I just happen to watch Doctor Who movie the other night, so I knew a bit about him before the episode. :)

I didn't feel that we got enough of Jack in TW to even find him interesting.
The show felt more concerned with exploring Gwen and Owen, which is partly why I was disappointed with TW.
Guh I could do without Gwen and Owen on that show. My personal motto for series 2 is "A little bit more to the right next time Ianto!" (when he shots him) >:)
More Jack, Ianto and Tosh.

Now the thing with me, as you maybe remember is, that I got hooked on Torchwood first. I decided to check it out after I saw your Jack/Jack icon on FF. :) I loved it and watched finale after that (and while whole flist was busy trying to get me to give TW a chance *no one* thought to mention that Jack is immortal, so I was "omb no!!!" when they shot and kill him in the finale! lol) and went and dl-ed and watched the whole series. I was hooked on Jack so I had to see him on Who after that.
I did watch few episodes of Who before, but after The Unquiet Dead I put it on hold for when I'll have more time. But after I tried watching again, and got to Jack episodes I was hooked on Who as well. \o/ The rest is history. ;)
So I guess seeing him on TW first did colour my views of Jack a lot.

But it's only been like 9 episodes or so since Rose left.
I think for me, it's really hard to understand why would someone who's 925 and had lots of Companions all of a sudden be so depressed after he lost the latest one. I love Rose, she was fantastic and I cried like a baby in Doomsday. But for me Doctor just isn't like us, he just doesn't get how human emotions work. From the very first episode of the new series when he kept forgetting that Mickey might be dead, to well - now - when he's more giddy because he guessed it's called conglomeration and not expressing he's sorry because everyone dies. He just never got how humans work, he's so different. For example, I don't think he gets the concept of monogamy - if you think he and Rose had some special relationship, it still didn't stop him from asking Sara Jane to travel with them. Or how he felt for Madam De Pompadour. Or how he asked Joan now to travel with him, even though Martha is already here. He's just...different than us. What I'm getting at is that I don't mind him missing Rose. But the way he's written this season, his grief/loneliness is so - human. And to me it feels a bit out of character.

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

I think for me, it's really hard to understand why would someone who's 925 and had lots of Companions all of a sudden be so depressed after he lost the latest one.

Rusty wants Rose to be special. The problem lies in the way he's going about showing that. Now, I can certainly understand why she is different from other companions, being that the Doctor pretty much only had her when he had lost everything else and that's going to put things on a whole new level of needy. This is why I adored the Nine/Rose dynamic - he desperately needed her even more than she needed him, and though we mostly were shown her frustration and need to escape the dreariness of everyday life in favor of something extraordinary, it was certainly paralleled in what he needed from her.

Still, as I said above, now it's getting to be overkill and is doing Rose a disservice. She's not a deity and doesn't deserve to be treated as such - that's not fair to her. I don't think it's the Doctor's loneliness that is OOC (as that's pretty much canon) so much as the fact that for someone who almost never discusses his personal emotional life, he sure brings her up a hell of a lot. A couple of references would have sufficed to indicate the importance of Rose in the Doctor's life, and wouldn't make necessary mentions of Rose (like the one in this episode) obnoxious.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Sexon references


Er Saxon even.

[duskwillow.livejournal.com]

*smirk*
Sexon, eh? >:)

There is much hotness on the show at the moment. \o/

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yep, I've already joined saxonvoters in hopes of Master/Doctor porn

[transtempts.livejournal.com]

Seeing Jack on DW makes me want to write Doctor/Rose/Jack fics set when they were all together on the TARDIS and zipping all over time and space.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Sounds fun *g*

[crossbow1.livejournal.com]

Yeah, everything you sain.
Hermits United!

About Cassandra being the last human: Ten said something about humans spending a million years in gaseous form and something else I didn't catch, so maybe she really was the last human at that time.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

It would be nice to think we would evolve into something that could fly or something though wouldn't it *g*