I didn't insult you. I simply stated what you were doing, which IS what you were doing. Trying to equate a simplified version of S2/S3 BTVS with Wesley's actions. You just said that's what you were doing. *I* actually do sympathize with what Wesley did. But...
Buffy didn't have good intentions when she ran away. She was 1.) expelled from her second school in a year, 2.) wanted for murder, 3.) kicked out by her mom, 4.) left believing no one had her back after Xander put Willow with them, and 5.) just killed a newly ensouled Angel. She didn't have good or bad intentions, just nowhere to go.
When she didn't tell them Angel was back, she still had no belief any of them wouldn't attack him since Angelus tortured Giles, Xander wanted him dead and she believed Willow was with them. This is more equatable with Wes if all this transpired in BatB (and Angel was killing people, she knew about it and covered it up), but it didn't. It's not different because it all turned out OK, it's different because it was at most dereliction of duty, if that, since Oz and Angel are equated in that ep, not a betrayal.
As for Giles, he went to Buffy to say that and offered himself for judgment. Did we see Wes pursue his friends and try to explain himself? I don't think we did, though he may have been put off by the smothering. His stance was *they* should have come to him to get his explanation, but while I get what he was trying to do, that's on him if that's what he wanted. I wasn't comparing motivations for doing it--Giles obviously felt it was justified in some way or he wouldn't have done it--but the expectation of forgiveness.
Which, as the circle comes back around, is my beef with it and something I don't think all the yammering in the world will get us to agree on. It doesn't work for me because the guy who should at least understand (Angel), he seems to give a pass to vs the others who were always been rash and judgmental. Them, he wants understanding from. He puts himself in a non-win situation because like you said, Angel is different when it comes to his stuff. No win there. Gunn, Fred and Cordy. No win there, either. At least if he expected them to come to him to explain himself.
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rosecarmine
(no subject)
Date: 2015-02-11 08:05 pm (UTC)I didn't insult you. I simply stated what you were doing, which IS what you were doing. Trying to equate a simplified version of S2/S3 BTVS with Wesley's actions. You just said that's what you were doing. *I* actually do sympathize with what Wesley did. But...
Buffy didn't have good intentions when she ran away. She was 1.) expelled from her second school in a year, 2.) wanted for murder, 3.) kicked out by her mom, 4.) left believing no one had her back after Xander put Willow with them, and 5.) just killed a newly ensouled Angel. She didn't have good or bad intentions, just nowhere to go.
When she didn't tell them Angel was back, she still had no belief any of them wouldn't attack him since Angelus tortured Giles, Xander wanted him dead and she believed Willow was with them. This is more equatable with Wes if all this transpired in BatB (and Angel was killing people, she knew about it and covered it up), but it didn't. It's not different because it all turned out OK, it's different because it was at most dereliction of duty, if that, since Oz and Angel are equated in that ep, not a betrayal.
As for Giles, he went to Buffy to say that and offered himself for judgment. Did we see Wes pursue his friends and try to explain himself? I don't think we did, though he may have been put off by the smothering. His stance was *they* should have come to him to get his explanation, but while I get what he was trying to do, that's on him if that's what he wanted. I wasn't comparing motivations for doing it--Giles obviously felt it was justified in some way or he wouldn't have done it--but the expectation of forgiveness.
Which, as the circle comes back around, is my beef with it and something I don't think all the yammering in the world will get us to agree on. It doesn't work for me because the guy who should at least understand (Angel), he seems to give a pass to vs the others who were always been rash and judgmental. Them, he wants understanding from. He puts himself in a non-win situation because like you said, Angel is different when it comes to his stuff. No win there. Gunn, Fred and Cordy. No win there, either. At least if he expected them to come to him to explain himself.
I do apologize if you felt insulted.