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How disappointing to read about the serious Dawn hate that apparently goes on at Buffy events :/ And, from what I read of the comments, the crowd can get pretty aggressive and nasty about it too. A comment mentions that one sing-along saw a laugh from "I hope you get raped" being shouted at Dawn
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(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 01:09 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 03:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 01:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 02:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 01:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 03:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 01:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 01:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 01:52 pm (UTC)Yes, AJ Cook's no longer on the show. Yes, Rachel Nichols effectively replaced her. No, this doesn't mean you can call Rachel Nichols a "whore" and yell at her on Twitter.
BOUNDARIES.
It's the language, too... "I hope you get raped"... "whore"... who says that? What's WRONG with people that they feel it's okay to say that?
Sorry, this got tl;dr but damn, it's depressing.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 02:22 pm (UTC)With Dawn I understand that she got screechy in two episodes (Blood Ties and Older And Far Away) with the infamous "get out get out get out", but I don't see the need to scream and protest everytime she opens her mouth. Idk, she was not half as bad as people made out most of the time
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 02:38 pm (UTC)Besides, I really don't get the Dawn hate. I actually really like Dawn. She not my #1 character of all time, but I like her a lot.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 02:51 pm (UTC)I can understand people finding her more annoying in season 6, but then that wasn't really a great season for any of the characters (I still love it though *g*). In seasons 6 and 7 honestly I think she was a character who would have worked better in a supporting role because she didn't really fit with the gang, and it was awkward when a big fuss was made about say Buffy's friends not wanting to hang out with her at the mall (because, other than mabe Willow/Tara who were more parental figures to her, why would they?) But I always liked watching her sisterly reationship with Buffy, and when she had a place as part of the seasonal arc. I just think that later on, if they weren't willing to do more with her being the key (which could have still led to some interesting storylines?) and Joss wanted to keep her as a regular teenage girl, then she would have worked better as more recurring like Joyce was, rather than appearing in every episode.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 05:58 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 12:41 pm (UTC)Whereas I had really liked Real Me and Blood Ties from season 5 when Dawn's storylines could be incorporated as part of the arc, instead of random let's go back to high school for this one episode
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 03:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 03:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 04:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 04:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 04:23 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 04:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 04:30 pm (UTC)It does bug me though that they tried to portray it as some heroic choice of Xander's to NOT take take advantage of his friend when Buffy comes on to him and he babbles on about how much the slim possbility that it was for real would mean to him urgh. Even in a Xander episode I like, I still have major issues with his character
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 06:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 05:12 pm (UTC)I thought her presence in Season 5 was essential to Buffy's arc. My real regret with her character is that they basically dropped her relationship with Spike in the later half of Season 6 and 7. They had her confront Spike after he got his soul about the way he treated Buffy but then after that....they never really showed them together again. And that always kind of bummed me out because I felt as though Spike's care for Dawn was one of the most interesting examples of his very complicated humanity that still managed to peak through even without his soul prior to Season 7. Spike was this truly deranged, complex man who was able to connect with a child and in his own odd way to love her and protect her as a way of showing honor to Buffy. And I was always sad that they dropped that in Season 7.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 05:19 pm (UTC)YES! Total agreement!
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 05:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 05:19 pm (UTC)Spike and Dawn's friendship was there early on in season 6, but then they seemed to take it off-screen, and then season 7 never give any closure other than Dawn delivering the "set you on fire" threat. And I never had a problem with that because I can understand how angry she would be after what Xander told her, but it seemed odd that there was no personal sense of betrayal from Dawn if that makes sense? It could have been any anon vampire she was threatning to stay away from her sister, and it was like the writers forgot that she and Spike were ever even close
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 09:13 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 05:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-21 05:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-22 12:02 pm (UTC)I did see a sing-along at the Paley Center Buffy reunion. The whole cast, along with Joss, was either in the same room or the adjoining room watching it too. The crowd yelled the loudest for Spike (which is traditional) but were respectful of Dawn. There was also respect and plenty of cheering for Michelle Trachtenberg when she came out for the panel. Fans in general know how to behave, and know in which instances they should or shouldn't yell shut up Dawn. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-22 12:40 pm (UTC)I'm glad people don't boo Dawn when Michelle is around anyway, that makes me feel a bit better *g*
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 05:50 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 08:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 09:10 am (UTC)However, people do have a right criticize elements of tv shows that they don't like (more so when the elements they dislike are actually bad, unlike Dawn). And some people seemingly can't bear to hear a word spoken against characters they like and would like to shut down all expression of opposing opinions. This leads to censorship.
Character bashing is often the (relatively) powerless (individual fans) rebelling against those with more power in our society (people with power enough to get their shows made), fans rebelling against what the showmakers are pushing as likable and cool. It can also be people rebelling against majority views, an expression of the attitudes of a minority of fans. When this is silenced by censorship for fear of it "offending" someone we really have a case of those in a weaker position being silenced by those in a stronger one.
However, fans might have had the decency to hold back in the case of Dawn. Not only was there no good grounds for bashing Dawn, but the actress (MT) was young and vulnerable and not ready for the harsh treatment that can come with being a tv star. It breaks my heart to hear how MT was hurt by the bashing.
In the case of this convention, fans shouting abuse at a character during some sort of screening is uncivilized. More so, a bunch of fans ganging up on one fan is uncivilized and wrong. People need to have a little sensitivity on this sort of thing.
However, the blogger makes a bit too much in her two articles of the age of the fan, because she can't confirm that the fan actually was a minor. And young people of adult age are not little babies that have to be coddled. And nor are women. The fixation some people have on the vulnerability of women promotes a mindset that is disempowering toward women. Both genders are made up of people of varying degrees of vulnerability, but neither gender is made up primarily of people who can't stand up for themselves.
I am extremely familiar with being ganged up on by other people and told my views are wrong. It's not fun. However, I would hesitate to say they would have no right to do that. But shouting down somebody at a convention is not acceptable behavior. I imagine the poor Dawn fan must have felt pretty overwhelmed. I would have.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 06:54 pm (UTC)I agree :)
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 01:02 pm (UTC)I intensely disliked the brat on the show, but some people know no boundaries. Rape (or any sort of violence) "jokes" are always so bloody creepy and disturbing.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 01:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 03:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-23 04:12 pm (UTC)I intensely disliked the brat on the show, but some people know no boundaries. Rape (or any sort of violence) "jokes" are always so bloody creepy and disturbing."]
Rape jokes are unacceptable, but joking about general violence done to FICTIONAL characters should be perfectly acceptable. There is such a thing as being oversensitive and we are encouraged to be offended by every last little thing in modern culture. It's not healthy. Personally, I shoved Angel headfirst down my toilet and kept the satire going all week, narrating on Fanforum the visits of various Buffy and Angel characters while he was stuck there, finally ending when Angel lost weight so he could fit down the toilet and Spike sent him down with a kick in the balls. I chopped the head off Faith on another thread. I used to periodically kick Angel in the balls on the anti-Angel thread and we often shoved him into the sunlight and swept away the resulting ashes. You can find these things creepy if you like, but I had people thrilled with them. Personally I find oversensitivity creepy and disturbing. Goody-goody censorship really bothers me.