Xander seems like the furthest thing from a role model to me
RIGHT? Apparently you and I have very different lenses to Joss/M.E.
so where did he get off acting like the great insightful know it all
That's pretty consistent with his character from the get-go, probably something else he learned from his dad but our culture reinforces: "Me Tarzan, you Jane, me make decision because silly girl not know what best for you." (Angel, Giles, Hank, Riley and yes, Spike, all do it too.) He does it with all the women he "loves": possessive, jealous, controlling. "Mr. Insightful" ha a great big chip on his shoulder. He says to Buffy in SR, when she says that her personal life is none of his business, "It used to be." WHEN? She mostly went to Willow if anyone in the early seasons; he MADE it his business, but in S6 she actually shuts him out, so he pouts. Poor baby (not.)
In Ted he lectures Buffy that Ted's not a demon she can slay and says "There's some things you have to accept." Then Cordy passes by and he excuses himself so he can confront her in the hallway and insist that she go out with him. (then they decide to make out in the janitors closet.) Riley will echo that later in Doomed (telling Buffy she's "stupid" for not wanting to start a relationship just yet), but also Spike in S6, insisting that Buffy come out to her friends about their affair.
Xander saw himself as that dependable guy that Buffy should have chosen, and he never got over her dating Angel for as long as she did.
Yes. Add him wanting to keep his one guy pal around, practicing the speech he wants to give to Anya on Buffy, + his history of thinking himself Mr Insightful Guy, = a pretty complicated mix of motives. Still infuriating though.
So that IWMTLY scene of Xander acting just shocked at Buffy blaming herself for messing up with guys never made any sense to me at all
Oh that scene is on my list of "great moments in btvs WTF-ery". Hello? Telling her someday she'll find a guy who appreciates her is the complete opposite of his ITW speech!
Ironically, in an episode before ITW (Shadow? LtF?) when Riley doesn't show up for patrol one night as promised, it's Xander who makes a cutting observation about that the next day, acknowledging that Riley was not "reliable". So ITW is bookended by two very contradictory statements from Xander. I don't know whether to call it "Xander is a complex guy" or "the writing from one episode to the next seems disjointed, did the writers watch the episodes they didn't write?"
Even in Triangle he's lying in bed with Anya and talking about what a disaster all of Buffy's relationships are
You just handed me a good excuse not to rewatch. ;/ Actually the Willow-Anya clash infuriates me - they're fighting over Xander, basically; just as Willow and Cordy clashed over Xander. The ordinary nerd whom women fight over is a TOTAL fanboy fantasy. (And maybe Joss' revenge for all the girls in school who failed to go out with him?) Gross. BB&B does hang a lantern on this trope and it could have been a great chance to really subvert it but - they don't. (I think Him actually does a better job with that idea but then again - it's not Xander, just some one-time character so there's no need to let RJ's skeeviness off the hook. Although in the shooting script for Him, Xander says twice that RJ didn't know the effects his jacket had, so he was as much a victim as the girl. Extra cookies to whomever took that out.)
And that's when 19 year old Buffy had had a whole two relationships of hers not work out
It's not OOC for Xander to throw stones (who the HELL is he to talk?) and I'm sure a lot of people do that IRL when they're own relationships are in a good place; they see through the lens of their current situation and judge accordingly. Unfortunately, Xander seems to be the writers' mouthpiece oftentimes.
And you're prob right re: his intentions in BB&B, I admit I haven't rewatched. Whenever I do rewatch early episodes Xander's behavior just pops out at me all over again.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rosecarmine
(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-30 02:17 pm (UTC)RIGHT? Apparently you and I have very different lenses to Joss/M.E.
so where did he get off acting like the great insightful know it all
That's pretty consistent with his character from the get-go, probably something else he learned from his dad but our culture reinforces: "Me Tarzan, you Jane, me make decision because silly girl not know what best for you." (Angel, Giles, Hank, Riley and yes, Spike, all do it too.) He does it with all the women he "loves": possessive, jealous, controlling. "Mr. Insightful" ha a great big chip on his shoulder. He says to Buffy in SR, when she says that her personal life is none of his business, "It used to be." WHEN? She mostly went to Willow if anyone in the early seasons; he MADE it his business, but in S6 she actually shuts him out, so he pouts. Poor baby (not.)
In Ted he lectures Buffy that Ted's not a demon she can slay and says "There's some things you have to accept." Then Cordy passes by and he excuses himself so he can confront her in the hallway and insist that she go out with him. (then they decide to make out in the janitors closet.)
Riley will echo that later in Doomed (telling Buffy she's "stupid" for not wanting to start a relationship just yet), but also Spike in S6, insisting that Buffy come out to her friends about their affair.
Xander saw himself as that dependable guy that Buffy should have chosen, and he never got over her dating Angel for as long as she did.
Yes. Add him wanting to keep his one guy pal around, practicing the speech he wants to give to Anya on Buffy, + his history of thinking himself Mr Insightful Guy, = a pretty complicated mix of motives. Still infuriating though.
So that IWMTLY scene of Xander acting just shocked at Buffy blaming herself for messing up with guys never made any sense to me at all
Oh that scene is on my list of "great moments in btvs WTF-ery". Hello? Telling her someday she'll find a guy who appreciates her is the complete opposite of his ITW speech!
Ironically, in an episode before ITW (Shadow? LtF?) when Riley doesn't show up for patrol one night as promised, it's Xander who makes a cutting observation about that the next day, acknowledging that Riley was not "reliable". So ITW is bookended by two very contradictory statements from Xander. I don't know whether to call it "Xander is a complex guy" or "the writing from one episode to the next seems disjointed, did the writers watch the episodes they didn't write?"
Even in Triangle he's lying in bed with Anya and talking about what a disaster all of Buffy's relationships are
You just handed me a good excuse not to rewatch. ;/ Actually the Willow-Anya clash infuriates me - they're fighting over Xander, basically; just as Willow and Cordy clashed over Xander. The ordinary nerd whom women fight over is a TOTAL fanboy fantasy. (And maybe Joss' revenge for all the girls in school who failed to go out with him?) Gross. BB&B does hang a lantern on this trope and it could have been a great chance to really subvert it but - they don't. (I think Him actually does a better job with that idea but then again - it's not Xander, just some one-time character so there's no need to let RJ's skeeviness off the hook. Although in the shooting script for Him, Xander says twice that RJ didn't know the effects his jacket had, so he was as much a victim as the girl. Extra cookies to whomever took that out.)
And that's when 19 year old Buffy had had a whole two relationships of hers not work out
It's not OOC for Xander to throw stones (who the HELL is he to talk?) and I'm sure a lot of people do that IRL when they're own relationships are in a good place; they see through the lens of their current situation and judge accordingly. Unfortunately, Xander seems to be the writers' mouthpiece oftentimes.
And you're prob right re: his intentions in BB&B, I admit I haven't rewatched. Whenever I do rewatch early episodes Xander's behavior just pops out at me all over again.