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Doctor Who legend Sylvester McCoy says only a MAN can play the Time Lord

Obviously there's been a backlash against his statements in fandom, but can I be super-unpopular and admit that I'm not sure how I feel about a female Doctor either? Not that I'm agreeing with Sylvester McCoy reasoning though, "If they changed it to be politically correct then it would ruin the dynamics between the doctor and the assistant” doesn't even make sense as an argument when the dynamic between the Doctor and his Companions changes all the time? It's hardly an established dynamic that shouldn't be touched, they all relate to one another differently depending on differing individual personalities?

But anyway, it seems like the popular thing these days in fandom is to root for a female Doctor, and I'm just not sure how I feel about it. The canon suggests that Time Lords have some control over their changes, so why would the Doctor suddenly choose to regenerate as a woman when he has kept a male identity through 12 regenerations, and seems to have always identified as male? I mean I'm not entirely opposed to a female Doctor by any means, but I guess that's why it's a little bit of a sticking point for me at the moment. The argument seems to go that the Doctor is a Time Lord and can easily choose to regenerate as female without it being a big deal, except that he hasn't through 12 regenerations so far, nor have other Time Lord's like River and Romana, so clearly Time Lord's still must have some basic concept of gender and whether they identify as male or female?

Obviously the intro of Missy has changed things by opening up Time Lord society dealing with gender identity differently, but that still all seems a bit vague to me at the moment when this is the first time that we know of (I think?) that a Time Lord has chosen to change their sex, and we don't yet know if the Master had any particular reason for switching. I guess that I'm just stuck on, whatever regeneration they go through, it's always seemed like Time Lord's still keep the same basic core personality in the past, so wouldn't the Doctor (and the Master too I guess) continue thinking of themselves as male? I feel like the lone voice in fandom when it comes to this debate, because it always seems to get painted as only someone really old-fashioned and set in their ways could not want a female Doctor. And Idk, there's definitely some interesting casting choices out there that I could see myself enjoying as the Doctor, but at the same time it does feel to me like it would be kind of a simplistic message if the show did go with "oh we're hired a biological female to play the Doctor, that means that the character is suddenly a woman now and thinks of herself that way". I mean I assume anyway that part of wanting an actress to play the role of the Doctor would include that incarnation of the Doctor starting to identify as female?

I'm certainly not opposed in any way to changing the gender of established characters for reboots, I'm just not sure how to feel about it when it comes to a character from an ongoing television series. I'm a bit of a hypocrite I guess though lol as I have been enjoying the portrayal of Missy as the Master so much that they could probably make a female Doctor work for me just as easily with the right casting, but still is there anyone else out there who also feels a bit unsure with how a female Doctor would work when he's always been portrayed as male? (The Master choosing the female form for this latest regeneration just doesn't cancel out to me the way that it's always been shown to us as working in the past for the Doctor)

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So long as they pick someone who works, I'm happy. I'd be happy with a female Doctor, but I'm not going to froth and cry sexism if the character continues to be male.

But this looks like one of those fandom things I'm better off staying well back from for my own sanity.

It seems like there's two extremes, with internet fandom being super into the idea of a female Doctor and suspicious of anyone who doesn't agree, while most casual viewers are clutching their pearls at the very thought

In theory I'm not opposed to a female Doctor, it's the idea of him changing gender just because that doesn't really make sense to me within the show at the moment, although I have shifted slightly more to being in favour since Missy.

Edited 2015-08-02 18:13 (UTC)

I always feel really awkward saying that I don't much want a female Doctor either, because people tend to jump on you and accuse you of being sexist or something. But I don't much want a female Doctor. I'm not sure I could really explain why I feel that way, I just do. I think you've probably hit on most of it here, better than I could articulate. Most people think of themselves a particular way and it just seems unbelievable to me that the Doctor would suddenly start thinking of himself as a woman, and want to stay that way for an entire regeneration.

I feel like making the Doctor female would just be a stunt, sort of, like them trying to be bold and forward-thinking and 'hey, look at us, we're so radical, we changed the Doctor's gender'. But then, watching Missy made me half feel like they only did it so the Master could finally kiss the Doctor and not offend the more traditional audience members. And, yeah, to be new and different and spice things up. *shrugs*

IDK if any of that makes sense, like I said, it's mostly just a gut feeling I have that's hard to put into words.

I really don't care either way. I don't think it'd be horrible to turn him female, they pulled it off well with Missy and I have to admit I LOVED that they didn't have any of the "oh, now I am female, let's go on about it" stuff. She's just a woman now and that's that. On with the show! That'd be cool to see with the Doctor too. Something about the change just not being a huge deal. And I do think Missy is foreshadowing or testing the waters somehow.

But I do think a lot of the people who actively want a female Doctor think such a character would be... automatically better? Which I'm not cool with, a female Doctor would still have to be a good character, not poof, you're female, automatic good points. And while I feel stating the Doctor should only be male is a bit narrow, I don't think it makes you horrible sexist scum who has to die in a fire.

I dunno. It's not somewhere I want to tread. With my shows, what happens, happens. Not as if I own them, is it? I'll focus on making the things I DO own good instead, that's more productive than yelling at a screen.

I would probably go with it happily enough if they did ever find an actress who they believed would make for a perfect Doctor, but yeah I don't feel comfortable campaigning for it either and questioning why it hasn't happened yet. Maybe if this was the third or fourth regeneration then it would work well within the show and make sense, but the Doctor has kept his male form for twelve regenerations in a row, so at this point I accept that the Doctor identifies as male. Just as River Song identifies as female, and so to me it wouldn't have felt quite right if she decided to regenerate from Alex Kingston into a male actor

ETA Oh and I get that sex doesn't=gender, it just seems like Time Lord's have always had enough control over their regenerations to stick with their preferred sex

Edited 2015-08-02 18:35 (UTC)

Actually there's been a previous mention of another Time Lord, the Corsair, who changed sex when they regenerated (that was in "The Doctor's Wife," IIRC.)

As far as I'm concerned, they can cast anyone of any race, ethnicity, age, or gender as the Doctor, so long as they can pull off that essential Doctorness. I think that if Time Lords can change biological sex if they want to, then their concept of gender is probably nothing like the human conception of gender, and it doesn't make sense to say that they 'think of themselves as male' or 'think of themselves as female.' Their society might recognize half a dozen 'genders,' or none.

On the other hand, I'd also be very happy if they brought back Romana or Susan or the Rani or even Jenny, so that we'd have a mostly-female-identified Time Lord around.

I think it'd be interesting to have a woman play the Doctor. Or a POC. So far, the various incarnations seem to have very different ages, but that's about it.

My feeling as regards a female Doctor is...well, the internal consistency of the show. We know there are Time Lords and Time Ladies, and we've never been shown or told, in all the incarnations and episodes, that it is possible for a Gallifreyan to change sex when they regenerate. The whole thing with Missy, we've never had that explained, or how she can even be the Master when we saw the Master fail to regenerate and the Doctor burn his body. So there's some things that need exploring there before it can be used as evidence in the argument.

I think there needs to be a clear divide between wanting a female DOCTOR and wanting a female Time Lord/Lady. My feeling is a bit like Bond. Let's have a gender-flipped Bond! Why not do it? But don't make it the SAME character in the same universe with the same canon and expect us to buy into the internal logic (or lack thereof). Don't give us all the same backstory and history and motivation and personality and expect me to believe he's suddenly spontaneously changed sex. Give me a spin-off, give me an AU, give me a gender-flipped version. But don't just twist the whole decades-long canon and expect me to believe that Bond, or the Doctor, can just suddenly spontaneously change sex, because that's a suspension of disbelief too far.

Besides, what is River if not effectively a female Doctor? If they did try it, the new Doctor would only suffer in comparison...

Edited 2015-08-02 19:04 (UTC)

Okay, I'm a million seasons behind with DW but I've been on the periphery of the fandom (I watched Torchwood when that came out and a lot of the assistants do cameos in that too) and I've seen the up in arms thing and the possibility of a female doctor. Anyway, I don't know who Missy is (I am going to catch up on DW, especially since it's on Netflix) and I've kept my thoughts to myself because internet people love to gang up and attack, BUT...I feel the same as you. I mean, I'm not against feminism or anything, but having a female just to be politically correct rubs me the wrong way (like female quotas). I like many shows with strong female characters, when that's the established premise of the show. But DW is so different from....anything really. Idk. I think I'd rather see a male Doctor with a male companion over a female doctor (sorry, was just watching Torchwood and the dynamic between Jack and Ianto (I mean, even if they didn't have a relationship like they did) was really good. That's just my two cents. But I haven't seen past season 2 (although I've obviously seen the other doctors after through the internet) so maybe I don't count :P

I do see what you're saying about Time Lord's possibly having different concepts of gender (and I stand corrected on The Doctor's Wife!), but it still seems to me that the Time Lord's do identify as male or female enough that they want their biological sex to match that. The Master becoming "Missy" seems IMO to be a pretty big aberration, rather than something that they're all clearly comfortable with doing all the time, as the other Time Lord's have all made a point of sticking with their preferred gender everytime they regenerate. That's why I'm not sure how much sense it would make within the show for the Doctor to regenerate as a woman, even with Missy setting precedence for it

I'm not all up in arms about it though I feel I should add! A lot of people who are against a female Doctor give that side of the debate a really bad name I know :P But yeah, I'm just not sure that it would work for me with how the Doctor's character has been established as having always been male. For a film franchise reboot sure, but for a character to actually switch from male to female on a tv show as part of the continuity is what I'm not sure of I guess. They pulled it off with Missy beautifully, but I'm still not at the stage of clamouring for an actress to be considered for the Doctor's next regeneration

On the other hand, I'd also be very happy if they brought back Romana or Susan or the Rani or even Jenny, so that we'd have a mostly-female-identified Time Lord around.

I agree with that :)

My objection has more to do with contemporary sexism than Gallifreyan biology or culture. The Doctor has to seem alien. My biggest objection to, say, Tennant, was that he never sold alienness to me; my favourite Doctors seem the least human.

I think the alienness stems from a sort of awkwardness, weird features, subtle mannerisms, etc., and that is a thing that tends to be more culturally permissible among male actors than female. I can think of a handful of women who I think would pull it off—Tilda Swinton, Janelle Monae—but in general even the BBC casts for pretty with women and casts for interesting with men. I would, of course, like to see more weird and alien looking women on screen, but that's tangential.

It's also a very visceral reaction because I grew up with the show and the Doctor's always been male. Internalized sexism, I guess, but it's also hugely important to have that kind of archetype and role model. The Doctor's defining characteristics—compassion, intellect over violence, humanism in the philosophical sense—tend to be derided in men, and having the hero of a sci-fi show be all about words over fists is quite rare and significant from a feminist perspective. He shows young boys how they should act, and young girls an expectation of how men should act.

I do really want there to be a POC Doctor, though. Not for a very long time, because I want Capaldi to be the Doctor for a very long time, but for 13. Specifically, Idris Elba.

Curious how you feel about a non-white Doctor? You could make the same argument that the Doctor identifies as/prefers to be white, since all his iterations have been so far.

I have mixed feelings. It's one of the most beloved and coveted roles in Britain and in sci-fi, so it might be nice for someone non-white and/or female to get a chance at it, but they certainly don't HAVE to simply for fairness or equality's sake. And I can see the in-story characterization suggesting that, after 12 regenerations, the Doctor clearly identifies as male (even though that's been dictated by casting decisions that simply excluded females by default and not any actual story considerations).

But I think the reason the demand for a female Doctor has gotten so strong is that no one associated with the show has given a GOOD reason why not, and the reasons Moffat et al give are disingenuous and insulting. "We're just casting the very best PERSON for the job AND THAT PERSON JUST HAPPENS TO BE ANOTHER WHITE DUDE." Really??? And that's something you hear ALL THE TIME in film/TV casting and it's infuriating.

If all they are truly looking for is someone captivating and "carved out of solid star", then surely they'd WANT to expand their search to include as many great actors as possible, regardless of race or gender. Clearly they want credit for openmindedness while not actually making any effort toward diversifying.

I LOVED that they didn't have any of the "oh, now I am female, let's go on about it" stuff. She's just a woman now and that's that. On with the show!

It wasn't a huge deal I agree, but I would argue that some of the writing did subtly shift when the Master became Missy, i.e changing from his chosen name and using the Mistress form instead (which has pretty different connotations to Master), as well as referring to the Doctor as "my boyfriend" and kissing him, something that arguably previous versions wouldn't have done. Although I'm probably on shaky ground there when it comes to John Simm's Master :P

Missy still has a similar personality to past versions of the Master undoubtedly, but I would argue that as a character Missy is meant to come across as female, rather than the male Master just using a female form. And so does that mean that the writing of a female Doctor would also change to reflect that he now considers himself to be female, even though a person's gender automatically switching to match their biological sex surely isn't the greatest message to be putting out there, but that seems to be what people are asking for with a female Doctor?

It would be a big change to have a female Doctor definitely, but the fact that the various incarnations have all been more or less similar is what makes me question how it would work in continuity for the Doctor to decide now become a woman 12 regenerations in

Yeah I could buy it if the Time Lord's did see gender differently to us and didn't really care if they regenerated as male or female, but all evidence so far is that they don't, their biological sex matches up every time with how they self-identity?

And right, I can understand feeling like it would be an important and progressive step to have a female Doctor, but does that mean that it would work in the continuity of the show? I'm not as opposed to it with film characters like Bond actually (although I'm not familiar with the source material there either admittedly *g*), cause every film is kind of its own version I believe? But for a continuing story like Doctor Who, I do question how it would work for an established male character to choose in-story to switch to female. It worked with Missy of course, but as you say, there are still questions there as to why the switch, it's a pretty out of the norm event within the show

I'd love another male companion! Heh Sylvester McCoy didn't really seem to consider that when he was complaining about how a female Doctor would ruin the dynamic between the Doctor and his assistant!

Spoilers for Missy and DW:

And Missy is the Doctor's long-standing enemy, the Master. He always appeared as male in the past, so it was a twist in series 8 when a villain known as Missy was eventually revealed to be short for Mistress, aka The Master

Oh yeah, the writing shifted, I just rather liked that there wasn't a big deal made in the storyline about it. But that's just me. I can definitely see why it would be bothersome to others. Still, I guess that's fandom - sometimes something can be issue laden for one person and great for another!

Eh I'm not opposed to a non-white Doctor at all, although I suppose that's true that you could apply my argument to that. Gender just seems so innate to me I guess that it puzzles me when fandom talks like the Doctor could just become a woman by switching forms, whereas it wouldn't be a big deal to me if he say changed his outward appearance to black and still otherwise remained the Doctor

even though that's been dictated by casting decisions that simply excluded females by default and not any actual story considerations

That's a fair point, although I'd argue that they could still have chosen to portray other Time Lord's as switching more readily between gender's as an option for Time Lord society, instead Romana for example was quite definite on being a "Time Lady", just as River always stuck with the female form

I do agree that it's frustrating that white and male is so often the default choice, but in this particular case it wouldn't entirely work for me as I suppose that I'm fixating on it being an ongoing storyline with an established male character, if they ever rebooted DW and started off a completely new version then I would be all for a female Doctor

Does he really decide? On a subconscious level, maybe, but he's usually quite surprised at the way he ends up looking after a regeneration.

lol Just so you know, I'm a complete spoiler-whore so I'm always asking (or googling) for stuff before I watch (because I get really easily confused otherwise lol). And ooooooh. That would be a head trip but I'd rather have a female Master than the Doctor.

Okay DW is going to be watched, 'nuff said. I'd stopped in mid-season 2 because, well I loved David Tennant (and Rose of course) and someone told me that the end of s2 (I think that's when David changes? This was a while ago....memory is fuzzy) was an epic torment of emotions and tears and I had just gotten through Torchwood Children of Earth (I don't think I stopped crying during that entire season) and I couldn't take another emotional hit at that time (I was drained) so I just stopped. I take my fictional characters very seriously and their deaths take an emotional toll on me that I wouldn't feel for most of the people in my RL (family excluded but I don't really have many family members). But if we're in season 8 it's going to take me a while. They'd better have it up on Netflix for a long time lol.

Edited 2015-08-02 19:56 (UTC)

He doesn't have much control over his regeneration in terms of physical appearance, but I guess I'm assuming that he must have *some* type of unconscious influence still as all of the Time Lord's (pre-dating Missy) have continued regenerating into the same sex that they identify as, River for example always regenerated as female

Heh I am too, but at the last minute I thought that I'd best add a warning just in case *g*

And it's worked surprisingly well so far for the Master, so that's probably taken away from my argument somewhat lol, but Idk it's still kind of weird to me to imagine the Doctor deciding to regenerate as a woman suddenly when he has always been presented as a male character

The Doctor's defining characteristics—compassion, intellect over violence, humanism in the philosophical sense—tend to be derided in men, and having the hero of a sci-fi show be all about words over fists is quite rare and significant from a feminist perspective.

Good points :) I feared this entry would make me come off as really regressive, but I mean that's honestly how I feel. We can debate over whether the concept of gender is more fluid for Time Lord's, and perhaps it is, but the Doctor has still always been presented as a male character who is constantly regenerating into the male form, in-show is there really that much justification for him to become a woman on his 13th regeneration?

Idris Elba

Ooh I would die if they ever cast him *g* Sadly it's not looking likely though as his career has really taken off, I can't see him wanting to be tied down to DW at this point :/ But yeah, I'm all for a PoC Doctor too, there's not an sticking point for me in the same way as the Doctor switching genders is.

My biggest objection to, say, Tennant, was that he never sold alienness to me; my favourite Doctors seem the least human.

ITA! Tennant was my least favourite Doctor because he always just seemed too ~hipster cool~ to me, I could never quite gel with him :(

There was a throwaway line in "Doctor's Wife" about a time lord that changed genders along with The Master so the seeds have been planted. And, honestly, I think fandom would stop clamoring for it if people would stop making stupid comments like this. I mean, I would love to see it, for the fun of it, but when you tell me I CAN'T? Oh now I DEMAND it LOL.

I mean, seriously, he is supposed to be out of regenerations anyway, according to the original canon, right? This show has rules, but they are pretty wibbly wobbly so I don't find a female doctor to be that much of a stretch.

It's not issue laden for me personally with Missy because I do agree on being very happy with that casting, but I found it interesting that people are asking for a female actress as the Doctor when surely stuff like that would get a lot more scrutinised with the lead character (especially if Moffat was still showrunner at that time), and people would start talking about how problematic it was that the Doctor was now using female pronouns when he never had before, and does the change of sex mean that he is suddenly a woman now etc

Yet no one seems to bring any of that up in the call for a female Doctor?

Edited 2015-08-02 20:17 (UTC)

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