frelling_tralk | (no subject)

Regarding the accusations of racism in Doctor Who

It's not DW's fault that Martha had to disguise herself as a maid in HN/FOB. DW's a show about time travel, of course the racism in history will come up occasionally, when a black actor or actress is cast as companion! It was a two-parter set in 1913 England, why blame DW for accurately portraying history? The episodes even showed John Smith and Joan being the ones to look like fools for underestimating Martha (who resolved the cliffhanger of HN, and had the knowledge of the bones in the hand moment).

And Rose was complaining in series two about the Doctor always sticking her in the serving position. Rose was dinner lady in SR, she was the waitress in the Cyberman episode. Martha's experiences in HN/FOB were not out of the norm for a companion, and I'm sure that Rose would have been the maid as well, if she was around for that episode. And Martha having to work in a shop in Blink to support the Doctor, only reflected badly on him! She was hardly the happy and "faithful servant" seeing as she suddenly burst out with how she has to support him now, and seemed pretty pissed off at his uselessness

And it's seen as humiliating for Martha to be loyal to the Doctor, but Rose was just as clingy in her time. The companions are supposed to be swept away by the Doctor. I mean what about Jack throwing dignity to the wind, and quite literally throwing himself on top of the Tardis? Freaking out over losing the Doctor's hand in the jar. Not to mention Jack emphasizing with Martha over being overlooked romantically by the Doctor in favour of Rose. Even Rose had to watch him flirting with the upper-class Madame De Pompadour in GITF. Martha wasn't supposed to come across as a loyal servant at all. What about her ordering the Doctor to tell her about Gallifrey in Gridlock. Saying "I'll do what I like" in TSOD. Slapping him in HN.

And there's upset over the Doctor not loving Martha romantically. But then wouldn't it have made the Doctor look incredibly shallow to love the next companion that crosses his path in the exact same way that he had loved Rose? So it seems the solution is either to have cast a white female for the role of next companion, or to have just completely messed up the Doctor's emotional arc. Plenty of people did fall for Martha. Martha got a snog in 42. Tom got killed by the Master in trying to protect Martha. Shakespeare flirted with Martha. The Doctor overlooked Martha because of his own issues, because of still being hung up on Rose. Are the casual audience really going to be sat at home thinking that the difference is that Rose was white, and Martha black? The Doctor would have been the same with any companion that wasn't Rose, which is backed up by the emphasis the word Rose is given throughout the season.

Yes the Master did make Martha's family his servants in TLOTT. And I was uncomfortable with that. We were supposed to be! There's also Jack in chains. There's the Doctor with a dog bowl, and being trained to respond to a bell. There's the massaging women (what would they be called?), Lucy rushing to get the Master's coat. Martha was actually the one character who escaped being humiliated by the Master, and returns to laugh in his face. I believe her brother would also have been involved in that, except the actor got double-booked by mistake?

And the Doctor did say that he would never ask Martha not to carry a gun. (He definitely said "ask" not "tell"). And again that's Martha being treated like everyone else. In Bad Wolf, the Doctor throws the gun aside, "like I was ever gonna use it". Last season he makes the comment that Torchwood can shoot him, but the moral high ground is his. And, in Utopia, the Doctor tells Jack "don't you dare" when Jack had a gun. It so wasn't a comment on "I can't believe you ever thought that Martha would do something I hadn't ordered her to do", it was a comment along the lines of, "as if I would promote the use of guns and killing".

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Billy was the nice police officer in Blink.

The Master was dominating everyone though, he wasn't singling the black characters out for racist abuse.

Well, it's the mere fact of him dressing them up in servant uniforms. Why would the Master know enough about Earth history to do that? It implies a sort of universal racism that was just shoddy writing. No, I do not think it was deliberate racism, just poorly thought out in terms of implication. The fact that it came on the heels of Martha forced into servitude just made it look bad.

I in no way think Martha's unrequited love thing was racist, I just think it was slightly anti-feminist, though the end in which she left on her own terms was pretty awesome, so it's all good.

Billy was the nice police officer in Blink.

Oh okay. But he wasn't killed off though was he, he just made a life for himself back in the past? And Sally seemed quite attracted to him, so it was more of a what could have been story, then his being punished for flirting with her...

No, I do not think it was deliberate racism, just poorly thought out in terms of implication.

Yesh, maybe it would have been better to write that differently and not had the maids outfits, although still I think that fandom criticizing HN/FOB is incredibly unfair, when the novel was already written and set in 1913, and the racist of the time was addressed and condemned.

I in no way think Martha's unrequited love thing was racist, I just think it was slightly anti-feminist, though the end in which she left on her own terms was pretty awesome, so it's all good.

Yes! I could have done without all the crush references. But, with all the complaints of Martha faithfully serving the Doctor, she was actually the one that was ultimately able to walk away and make her own life. Poor Rose was left sobbing on a beach (with both Nine and Ten making the decision to send her away in POTW and Doomsday, and her Dad ultimately grabbing her for the parallel world). People are arguing that Rose had more agency than Martha, but if anything Rose became much much clingier in season 2, than Martha ever did.

I think that fandom criticizing HN/FOB is incredibly unfair, when the novel was already written and set in 1913, and the racist of the time was addressed and condemned.

Word. I thought it was handled very well. Same goes for Martha getting her bitch on about the racist stereotypes in "The Shakespeare Code", for that matter. That's why I think these other incidents are just a matter of poor planning that is extremely unfortunate. I would call it racist, yes, just as I would call a lot of the show anti-feminist as well, but this is all a matter of "maybe you should think a little more about your implications, RTD" than anything else.

As for Rose and Martha, I just don't get the comparisons people make. Rusty, though, seems to want to amplify it, which is damaging. I mean, does everyone have to crush on the Doctor here? Rose, Jack, Martha, Lynda, Reinette, Joan (ok that one was necessary), the Master, Sarah Jane.

That's why I think these other incidents are just a matter of poor planning that is extremely unfortunate. I would call it racist, yes, just as I would call a lot of the show anti-feminist as well, but this is all a matter of "maybe you should think a little more about your implications, RTD" than anything else.

I can agree with that :) Stuff like the maids outfits should probably have been changed. But yes on not getting the whole Rose Vs Martha thing as saying anything about race relations. I loved Rose's role in PotW, but if we're talking about her having more free choice in that episode, and being so much more impressive than Martha was in LotTL, that's just not true. Martha travelling on her own for a year, after what the Master did to her world, and having the determination to visit all those different countries, is every bit as impressive as Rose in PotW. Yet there's arguments that it meant nothing because it was all the Doctor's plan, and Martha was merely acting as his servant :/

I think a lot of people are lashing out because they were dissatisfied with the ending (hey, I was too), but to somehow label Martha's departure as racist kinda demeans the actual fight against racism, here. I mean, the woman made her own decisions and did everything by her own terms. Where's the argument here? Can't we focus on the stuff that's actually stupid and possibly degrading if we're going to complain?

And seriously, everyone at the time was arguing that Rose didn't have enough free will in PotW (which I loved as well), but now they've shifted positions, apparently.

Conclusion? Fandom is silly. Once again.

From what I'm following of the f_w discussion, Martha's position in LotTL was only about spreading the word of the white man, and she really didn't do anything clever or worthwhile off her own bat, (And this being posted in a comm for fans of Martha) and ends up kneeling to the Master (umm yeah, and won that moment hands down!)

Whereas Rose was a skilled and intelligent Goddess in PotW now, and this from the people who generally couldn't stand Rose at the time

Conclusion? Fandom is silly. Once again.

So yes, indeed