frelling_tralk (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
frelling_tralk) wrote2019-10-07 02:22 pm
frelling_tralk) wrote2019-10-07 02:22 pm
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Had some trouble sleeping last night after finishing season 2 of Mindhunter!
Especially the opening and closing shots with the BTK killer *shudders*
I was surprised that there was less of a focus of the serial killer interviews this time around. Other than Charles Manson, Son Of Sam, and Wendy’s first interview, it didn’t seem like the show focused on them much which is a bit surprising after they were talked about as being most people’s favourite part of the first season. I was expecting more of Kemper too than just that one brief scene, although it probably was one of the most memorable parts of the season when he points out that they can only interview and profile the serial killers who have been caught, while presumedly the really skilled ones are the ones who are hiding in plain sight?
Other than those interviews though, Holden especially seemed really disinterested with some of the less infamous killers, and then in the second half of the season the focus shifts completely to the Atlanta child murder investigation. It is interesting that everyone seemed so excited about them speaking to Manson (Holden too was so in awe of him), and he was very much seen as the biggest get, when show itself points out that he was the only one they interviewed who never actually personally killed anyone. I wonder what it is that makes some killers so much more notorious than others...I was surprised that I had never heard of the candy man killer before actually when, on the face of it, his body count was far higher than Manson and Son Of Sam, not to mention the torturing of his victims over days and managing to convince two young teenage boys to go along with luring others to him, yet it doesn’t seem to be remembered as one of the really notorious true crime stories in the same way?
I liked that Wendy got to play to a bigger role with the interviews this time around, and I liked her relationship with the bartender at first too, but then her storyline seemed to fizzle out towards the end disappointingly and she barely had anything to do in the final episodes. I guess there was some good commentary made though on how it really was like that in the 70’s/80’s when it came to dismissing women’s contributions and their bosses objectifying them, but then things like Wendy deciding that she needs to speak up more at work just went nowhere in the end? I guess that it is more realistic this way, but it did feel a bit anticlimactic in a way. I did really enjoy her growing friendship with Bill though, and how the two of them feel like the ~grownups~ keeping an eye on Holden lol
And Bill’s storyline was kind of a strange one to me in some ways, it seemed an awfully big coincidence that his own son would be involved in a murder while he was working in a uuit that profiles serial killers and studies what creates them, honestly I think it would have been less of a stretch if Brian had been involved in animal torture or some similar thing that concerned Bill. The murder of the toddler just seemed too big, although I suppose that they probably did need something bigger to justify why Nancy was so frustrated at Bill not being around for support more, and also it did add a lot to how Bill was responding to certain things at work, such as his anger at what Manson was saying, or when the other FBI were talking about some kids being bad from the start.
Brian really was super creepy with the way that he rarely spoke and just stared at people, both Bill and Nancy seemed to be in huge denial when it came to things like Nancy suggesting that he go and play with the little girl in the playground that he was staring at, or Nancy saying that he would just forget about witnessing the little boys death. I felt like it should have been a much bigger deal that he was involved in a crime like that, but then I suppose that his age meant that nobody quite knew how to handle it
I was interested to read that that was actually based on a real case in America of a ten year old and a seven year old kicking and beating a child to death and leaving them on a cross, especially as they apparently faced little consequence for it, quite a stark contrast to how the two ten year old boys in England were treated for torturing and killing a toddler, and the two cases didn’t seem that dissimilar. Maybe the presence of the seven year old complicated things though, because obviously there’s not much you can do legally in that case
And Holden seemed to have the least personal storyline this year interestingly enough, considering that he was pretty much the lead character in season 1, but then the show seemed to lose interest in his panic attacks pretty early on...I did notice that he was often covered in sweat patches during the serial killer interviews though, so I guess we can see that as related maybe? And also he did seem to have the least personal life among the main three anyway because he was so enthralled by his work!
And I wasn’t sure what to make of the ending, it seemed like everything pointed towards it being that guy and Holden was sooo sure, and then suddenly at the end it became more ambiguous when they could only pin the murder of the two adults on him and gave up with the rest. But idk my interpretation was that he almost certainly really was the killer, the injustice was that they settled on just charging him with two murders and gave up on actually closing all of the individual cases and bringing all of the families closure? Maybe the murders of the girls were different crimes though, but I think that he was the one responsible for killing all of the young boys, especially with how he was acting with cleaning his car etc after he got caught on the bridge. Mind you I was expecting a more detailed profile from the unit actually, instead it seemed like all Holden really came up with was that it had to be a young black male in order to blend in with those neighbourhoods, and whenever he was asked by members of the community why he was so sure that they had their guy all he seemed to be able to offer up was that it being a young black male fit the profile, so it’s no wonder that a lot of people found it hard to buy. I’ve read about the real case that it’s based on, and I’m not sure what to think any more 🤷♀️
I was surprised that there was less of a focus of the serial killer interviews this time around. Other than Charles Manson, Son Of Sam, and Wendy’s first interview, it didn’t seem like the show focused on them much which is a bit surprising after they were talked about as being most people’s favourite part of the first season. I was expecting more of Kemper too than just that one brief scene, although it probably was one of the most memorable parts of the season when he points out that they can only interview and profile the serial killers who have been caught, while presumedly the really skilled ones are the ones who are hiding in plain sight?
Other than those interviews though, Holden especially seemed really disinterested with some of the less infamous killers, and then in the second half of the season the focus shifts completely to the Atlanta child murder investigation. It is interesting that everyone seemed so excited about them speaking to Manson (Holden too was so in awe of him), and he was very much seen as the biggest get, when show itself points out that he was the only one they interviewed who never actually personally killed anyone. I wonder what it is that makes some killers so much more notorious than others...I was surprised that I had never heard of the candy man killer before actually when, on the face of it, his body count was far higher than Manson and Son Of Sam, not to mention the torturing of his victims over days and managing to convince two young teenage boys to go along with luring others to him, yet it doesn’t seem to be remembered as one of the really notorious true crime stories in the same way?
I liked that Wendy got to play to a bigger role with the interviews this time around, and I liked her relationship with the bartender at first too, but then her storyline seemed to fizzle out towards the end disappointingly and she barely had anything to do in the final episodes. I guess there was some good commentary made though on how it really was like that in the 70’s/80’s when it came to dismissing women’s contributions and their bosses objectifying them, but then things like Wendy deciding that she needs to speak up more at work just went nowhere in the end? I guess that it is more realistic this way, but it did feel a bit anticlimactic in a way. I did really enjoy her growing friendship with Bill though, and how the two of them feel like the ~grownups~ keeping an eye on Holden lol
And Bill’s storyline was kind of a strange one to me in some ways, it seemed an awfully big coincidence that his own son would be involved in a murder while he was working in a uuit that profiles serial killers and studies what creates them, honestly I think it would have been less of a stretch if Brian had been involved in animal torture or some similar thing that concerned Bill. The murder of the toddler just seemed too big, although I suppose that they probably did need something bigger to justify why Nancy was so frustrated at Bill not being around for support more, and also it did add a lot to how Bill was responding to certain things at work, such as his anger at what Manson was saying, or when the other FBI were talking about some kids being bad from the start.
Brian really was super creepy with the way that he rarely spoke and just stared at people, both Bill and Nancy seemed to be in huge denial when it came to things like Nancy suggesting that he go and play with the little girl in the playground that he was staring at, or Nancy saying that he would just forget about witnessing the little boys death. I felt like it should have been a much bigger deal that he was involved in a crime like that, but then I suppose that his age meant that nobody quite knew how to handle it
I was interested to read that that was actually based on a real case in America of a ten year old and a seven year old kicking and beating a child to death and leaving them on a cross, especially as they apparently faced little consequence for it, quite a stark contrast to how the two ten year old boys in England were treated for torturing and killing a toddler, and the two cases didn’t seem that dissimilar. Maybe the presence of the seven year old complicated things though, because obviously there’s not much you can do legally in that case
And Holden seemed to have the least personal storyline this year interestingly enough, considering that he was pretty much the lead character in season 1, but then the show seemed to lose interest in his panic attacks pretty early on...I did notice that he was often covered in sweat patches during the serial killer interviews though, so I guess we can see that as related maybe? And also he did seem to have the least personal life among the main three anyway because he was so enthralled by his work!
And I wasn’t sure what to make of the ending, it seemed like everything pointed towards it being that guy and Holden was sooo sure, and then suddenly at the end it became more ambiguous when they could only pin the murder of the two adults on him and gave up with the rest. But idk my interpretation was that he almost certainly really was the killer, the injustice was that they settled on just charging him with two murders and gave up on actually closing all of the individual cases and bringing all of the families closure? Maybe the murders of the girls were different crimes though, but I think that he was the one responsible for killing all of the young boys, especially with how he was acting with cleaning his car etc after he got caught on the bridge. Mind you I was expecting a more detailed profile from the unit actually, instead it seemed like all Holden really came up with was that it had to be a young black male in order to blend in with those neighbourhoods, and whenever he was asked by members of the community why he was so sure that they had their guy all he seemed to be able to offer up was that it being a young black male fit the profile, so it’s no wonder that a lot of people found it hard to buy. I’ve read about the real case that it’s based on, and I’m not sure what to think any more 🤷♀️
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Agreed that it was a good season for Bill, it felt like he was the main focus this season after the first season was more centred around Holden
And yeah idk, it seems like Williams must have been involved in some of the killings at the very least as there’s just too much pointing to him, but I can understand the families frustration, it’s hard to conclusively say that you have the guy when he was never actually charged with the children’s murders
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I heard about the candy man killer about half a year ago for the first time and also couldn't believe I hadn't heard about him earlier. John Wayne Gacy apparently was inspired by him and even copied his handcuff trick. Everyone has heard about Gacy but not about Corll. Weird.
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And I guess that Holden losing interest in some of the interviews did at least give the other guy (whose name I can’t think of at the moment!) a chance to step up, it would be cool to see him become an official part of the team next season. But still it was funny to see Holden be *such* a fanboy when it came to someone like Manson, and then just seeming downright bored with some of their other interview subjects. It is certainly interesting to consider what it is that seems to fascinate public attention with some criminals, but not others
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I also enjoyed knowing that the research and work they did on the Atlanta child murders actually opened up some cold cases from that time.
The BTK Killer is pretty damn terrifying. I read his daughter's autobiography and my heart broke for her.
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And I'm not sure, I know that the actors have mentioned that the creator has a five year plan, but what that means with Netflix these days I have no idea, I don’t think that there’s been an official renewal announcement yet. It seems to be very critically acclaimed though, plus there’s the prestige of a David Fincher project when he usually does tv, so idk hopefully that might convince them to see out the five year plan as the actors have said that they’re all onboard? It will be super frustrating not to end it with some kind of epilogue to tie up the BTK case at the very least!
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I know the Brian storyline has divided people. It probably was a little too heavy handed, but I really enjoyed it. Like Wendy's storyline, it gave us a sharp contrast in how things have evolved in child psychology. Lots of things I read pointed out that Brian might be on the spectrum, that he is dealing with trauma, but Nancy and Bill have no way of understanding that yet because that way of thinking wasn't mainstream yet. And I did like the idea of throwing this at Bill, if only to shake his faith that the BSU profiles were 100%. Are killers born or made or evolve?
I'm really interested in what they decide to do with Season 3. It feels like Wendy's turn to be in the spotlight since Holden and Bill have had their time. There's a lot to explore with her character.
But, yeah, it definitely creeped me out. Not Manson, I think he is more "celebrity" than mastermind. I just happened to listen to a podcast about another crazy person who Manson apparently copied (I think they briefly mention it in Mindhunter) so he wasn't even an original kind of crazy. Holden fawning over him and pretty much getting *nothing* of substance for his notes amused me. I guess he is all about manipulation, planting seeds, sort of like the candy killer you mentioned.
I swear, I need to watch the season AGAIN and write down all the parallels and connections between the cases they are studying. There was a lot going on. I binged the season and kind of regretted it afterwards, should have savored it!!!
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I agree that the storyline with his son did add a lot to Bill’s character, even though I did find it a bit of a stretch. I’m curious to see what kind of role Brian plays in future seasons now that Nancy has left with him
And yeah that was one thing that surprised me, I was expecting Holden to have more of the answers than he did tbh, and instead his profile seemed pretty vague and they only ended up stumbling across the killer more out of luck than anything else. I suppose it makes a difference that it’s loosely based on a real life crime unit, and that doesn’t always make for such tidy answers as you get with your average detective show
I’m not sure when I will get around to rewatching season 2, but I was thinking afterwards that I wish I had given season 1 a rewatch beforehand, I’ve found that I’ve forgotten a lot of what happened in it as there was such a long gap between the two seasons!