(no subject)

[frelling_tralk]

This is SUCH a petty thing to care about, but lately it's been bothering me how many people talk about what the cure did to Katherine in The Vampire Diaries, and why would Damon want to take it when that would surely mean him ageing rapidly the way that Katherine did. Katherine didn't die because of the cure, she started ageing rapidly because Silas sucked the cure out of her blood. It wasn't in a blink and you'll miss it moment even, there was a whole cliffhanger build up around Damon feeding Katherine to Silas, yet even critics reviews for the last episode are talking about how it's the cure itself that will cause rapid ageing with older vampires?!

I just don't get why do so many viewers seem convinced that the cure was what somehow killed Katherine, Silas forcibly draining Katherine of the cure was a fairly important plot point?

Comments

[tellshannon815.livejournal.com]

It is odd and the only way I can really make sense of it is with the argument that if the cure can only cure one person, if Damon took it and Elena drank from him that would do it. But since there are ways around that such as getting the cure from 1903 as well or Elena taking it and Damon drinking from her, or the writers just ignoring the history and tweaking the facts to suit them , it doesn't need to go down that way.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yeah idk, from comments I keep coming across, sometimes it seems like half the fandom are under the impression that Katherine died because of taking the cure, rather than because of Silas draining her of it??

It isn't totally clear yet how Damon plans to take the cure as well as Elena, but my best guess is that he has some plan for searching for it in another prison world, they've already established that a single cure can't otherwise be shared between two people, so I hope they don't go back on that

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's petty at all, I think it hits on something very fundamental about fandom.

I just don't get why do so many viewers seem convinced that the cure was what somehow killed Katherine, Silas forcibly draining Katherine of the cure was a fairly important plot point?

Based on everything I've seen of fandom it's because people hate the cure storyline for another reason, and want to dismiss it as nonsensical, so they reach for this reason so they can have grounds for saying the story "makes no sense" that sounds like it's based on objective/factual grounds rather than whatever the real reason is (which is probably something much more subjective and/or petty.)

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Hmm true, it does feel like everything that the writers come up with gets automatically dismissed these days as nonsensical and contradicting past continuity, even though the in-show logic does track most of the time from what I've seen

[sum1-different.livejournal.com]

This the CW. The writers probably can't keep the story straight either.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

It can get pretty convoluted at times with all of the plot points to keep straight I suppose :P

[sum1-different.livejournal.com]

Well, my impression of CW shows by now (and a lot of shows by their predecessors) is that they have a habit of vanishing up their own arse holes with ridiculous storylines. Nowadays I avoid CW shows as a matter of course. The end of TVD season 2 was the last straw for me.

New LJ entry up, btw.

[lynnenne]

I honestly don't even remember that happening. I must have blocked everything Silas-related from my memory.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

It does seem like season 5 merges together for a lot of people *g* That cliffhanger was always one of the ones that stood out to me though, mostly because it was so cold how Damon held Katherine down and Elena silently watched him do it, especially after the earlier season 5 episodes had suggested that they were both softening towards human Katherine a little bit....

[lynnenne]

Ok, this is vaguely coming back to me... Silas was lying unconscious on a couch in Damon's living room, or something? Why did they feed Katherine to him? * checks wiki*

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yep, it was Damon's plan to cure Silas so that he could bring back Bonnie for Elena. You think that Katherine is a goner at first, then it ends with her waking up with the classic moment asking if she's in Hell *g* The grey hair and the tooth falling out begins in the episode directly after that, but oddly a lot of viewers have drawn the conclusion that it was the cure itself which caused that? I guess the widespread belief seems to be that human Katherine started the ageing process simply because she has been alive for so many years as a vampire and it was her time, but she really died (well eventually anyway!) as a direct result of Damon feeding her to Silas and actually losing the cure to him

[lynnenne]

I seem to recall Katherine seeking out some witch or other, and the character telling her that the cure was responsible for her aging. But since I don't even remember Silas eating Katherine, it's clear that my memory is not the most reliable! :P

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Hmm I don't remember that at all, just that the ageing started right after Silas drinks the cure from Katherine. Perhaps we would both benefit from a refresher on season 5 lol

[nrgburst]

Yeah, it was evil professor Wes with that theory.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I remember Katherine learning that she was ageing faster because of everything starting to catch up to her, but I always got the impression that she would have continued being physically healthy if Silas hadn't of drained her of nearly all of her blood and passed the cure into himself. That would fit with the cure only having enough for one, and two people not being able to both take the cure and survive, otherwise Elena could take the cure and let Damon drink some of it from her

I would have expected the characters to discuss the cure in terms of it having a catch and it was a good thing that none of them took it, something like that, if the cure was supposed to be what was at fault for Katherine's ageing, instead it is still being seen as a viable option for them, so I would imagine anyone taking the cure would be fine just as long as it remains in their system

[bm-shipper.livejournal.com]

Hm... I was actually pretty sure it was mentioned that Katherine died because of her "natural age" after she took the cure and therefore only "newer" Vampires could take it... but I haven't paid THAT much attention to the show anymore after Alaric died I have to admit and "just" watched it actually... It never occured to me that she died because Silas sucked the cure out of her actually... wouldn't have that turned her right back into a vampire? I totally feel like it was mentioned somehow that her natural age was catching up to her, but I could totally be wrong with that... I feel like Katherine tried to stop it by talking to someone and that someone told her that, but it could have been a lie or I could be wrong...

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Okay you guys are confusing me now lol, because if the cure is supposed to make older vampires age fast, then in that case it really doesn't make a lot of sense that Damon plans to take it?

Katherine's age did start catching up with her and it was explained to her that that was what was happening, but that was always only after she lost the cure to Silas from what I remember? I guess you could argue that, in a roundabout way, having and then losing the cure did kill Katherine, because that was what caused the ageing process to be accelerated, but she would have continued living as a human and being physically healthy if not for Silas draining her

[next_to_normal]

LOL meanwhile I have been wondering the opposite, which is why don't they just do a round-robin draining each other so everyone gets the cure? Stefan and Damon would be a problem, they couldn't both take it, but anyone who's been turned in the last few years... Elena, Caroline, Bonnie's mom, could all be human if they wanted to, and even one of the older vampires, as long as they're the last one in the line.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

There's only enough for one, so the impression I get is that if say Elena took on the cure and then got drained by Damon, that Elena then loses the cure for immortality and it passes into Damon instead as two people can't physically share the cure? Although I suppose that could still sort of work for Elena as she wouldn't age like Katherine did, so she could still live a full human life either way

And I did wonder why Bonnie didn't think of giving her Mother the cure!

*butts in*

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

Bonnie had a throw-away line in the episode where she gives Damon the cure about how her mom is actually pretty happy being a vampire so I guess she brought up the subject with Abby at some point, albeit off-screen.

Re: *butts in*

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Well at least they mentioned it anyway! It seems like a bit of a stretch that Abbie wouldn't even consider taking the cure though, however much she's adjusted now, after the big deal they made about how hard it was for her to lose her connection with nature and witchcraft

Re: *butts in*

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I feel like they did it to be able to justify Bonnie giving it to Damon instead of using it for herself/someone she loved and also so they didn't have to mention anything about the connection between witches and vampires since they just re-wrote their own canon to say that, actually, witches can become vampires without losing their magic! Like, the whole point of Damon turning Abbie was that you couldn't be a witch and a vampire but now that's totally a thing.

Re: *butts in*

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah it definitely makes more sense for the plot to keep the cure as an issue for Elena and Damon, but in character terms you'd think that Bonnie's Mom would be the one to get the cure after Bonnie found it. Although, then again, it is very Bonnie to always put Elena first in her life before thinking of herself :/

And I'm hoping that they're going to explain more on how those particular vampires managed to stay witches, it doesn't make a lot of sense otherwise after the emphasis that the show gave that with Abbie's plot.

Re: *butts in*

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I hope they come up with some explanation for why this happened because otherwise, I'm going to assume they just forgot everything they set up with Abbie's transformation. Which wouldn't surprise me, honestly.

Re: *butts in*

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Maybe it will be related to the specific coven that they're from? They did emphasis how that coven is different from your average witch, and the fact that they are both witches and vampires was obviously meant as a really big scary deal, unusual enough for the coven to trap them in a prison world. Idk lol. They do usually come up with some plotty explanation to tie things together though, so I'd be surprised if they just left it with no further explanation

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I'm so confused about this whole thing. Like you, I remember Silas draining Katherine and that she started rapidly aging/dying right after that. But I also remember a talk she had with someone (Wes, maybe?) that the cure was killing her because her natural human age was catching up with her. So I don't know if what that person told her was BS or if the writers just forgot/changed their own canon (it's happened before.) But it's all very confusing.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

When I wrote this entry I thought that it was really straightforward, but now the comments have started confusing me as well lol. I would argue that the show never treated the cure as being something that automatically makes older vampires age though, hence the other characters still considering it as an option if they want to become human, so the writers must have meant Silas draining Katherine to be the cause of her ageing and losing her immortality

Maybe they intended for the talk from Wes come across as saying that Katherine was dying from the cure because of originally being cured of being a vampire, and so that was what started the ageing process once she was drained of the cure?

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

Yeah it's just...too confusing :) If I didn't hate season 5 so much, I'd do a rewatch and try to figure it out.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I liked the first half with human Katherine and with Silas, it was after Katherine died and the Travellers because the focus that I started getting really bored with that season, although season 6 has been a huge return to form for me thankfully. Probably the first half of season 5 wasn't that great either actually lol, human Katherine just sucked me in so much that I skipped over a lot of its faults in my mind *g*

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

The first half was definitely better. I liked human Katherine and the stuff they did with Bonnie/Jeremy but I loathed the Silas-Amara-Qetsiyah stuff so that kept me from really enjoying a lot of those episodes. In fact, in the entire season, I think the only episodes I truly enjoyed were 5x04 (Bonnie's funeral) and 5x22 (season finale).

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed Qetsiyah as a villain, as well as Katherine adjusting to becoming human and meeting Nadia, so that probably helped the first half stand out in my mind more, but yeah a lot of the actual plot did get pretty convoluted and messy that year

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I love the actress who played Qetsiyah but I didn't like the character. And I really enjoyed the Katherine-Nadia stuff but considering how it ended, it all feels rather pointless.

[maybe.livejournal.com]

I have always thought like you, that Katherine started aging rapidly due to Silas draining her. So, really, Elena should be fine. But given how the last episode went - I don't think Damon is going to become human anyway. I just don't see how a human!Damon would stay and not leave town with her, makes zero sense.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yeah I was puzzled as to why so many people skipped over Silas draining Katherine, and thought the cure itself killed her. At least this last episode made it clearer with Damon's plan to keep the cure in his system to avoid what happened with Katherine's ageing

And yeah Damon isn't going to turn human, judging by the promo, I get the feeling that Stefan is going to be trying his hardest to talk him out of it

[woodycakes.livejournal.com]

it's not a petty thing to care about. i think you make a really good point. i guess the entire mythology of this show can get confusing. i don't understand what's happening half the time haha

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

The plot did start getting really complex by season 5 lol